On today’s episode of That Was Us, we have special guest, Director Chris Koch, breaking down Season 3, Episode 5: “Toby.” In this episode, the hosts talk about Toby’s mental health issues and how that affects his relationship with Kate. They also cover what it was like for Sterling as his character took on a big arc in the show, campaigning for City Councilman. Plus, Chris Koch talks about directing this episode and what he remembers working with the cast, his involvement in shaping each episode, how his directing style differs from others, and how his personal background helped inform his approach to the show. Support our sponsors: Build the best summer ever with KiwiCo! Get $15 off on your Summer Adventure Series at kiwico.com/TWU This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/TWU and get on your way to being your best self. That Was Us is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. Follow That Was Us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Threads, and X! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Chapter 1: What episode are we discussing today?
On today's episode of That Was Us, we are diving into Season 3, Episode 5, Toby. As Kate and Toby receive good news about their pregnancy, Toby's mental health continues to spiral. Meanwhile, Randall struggles to connect with the community during his campaign for city councilman, and Kevin meets a Vietnam vet who once knew Jack.
What's up, gang? Hello. How we doing today? Doing great. We're always delighted to be in each other's company, but we have even more special company with us today. Ladies and gentlemen, the director of Toby, one of our favorite directors of all time, Mr. Chris Koch. How's it going, buddy?
Chapter 2: What are Toby's struggles in this episode?
We'll let it in like a huge crowd of applause.
I assume that. Outside of Olin, I think you've directed the most episodes of This Is Us. Yeah, how many episodes did you direct? I think I did 11. Really?
Yeah. Only 11? I know. It feels like you did 25. Yeah. How many did Olin do? I don't know.
Chapter 3: What is Chris Koch's experience with directing?
More. 40-something.
No.
Is he up that high? No. He doesn't have the energy.
He doesn't have the energy for that.
He doesn't have the energy, but he did.
I should have just lied.
32.
32. 32 episodes. How many did I do?
She's looking it up right now. How's my career going, by the way? It's going great. As our producer Sam is looking this up, talk to us, your history with Dan, because you did shows of his prior to This Is Us, correct?
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Chapter 4: How does Toby's mental health affect his relationships?
I was just about to say the Birthday Party.
Yeah, which was crazy.
Yeah.
It was a lot. And I hate kids, so... I was going to say...
Jumping into our show, you jumped into like three different birthday parties.
Which shows just how good you are.
Was it fun for you? Like, did it feel like a departure from comedy with regards to pursuing the drama or did it feel the same?
I think it's easier in some regards to do drama than comedy because I'm not chasing why it's not funny. Sure. What's the joke? What's the alt? You know, there's that kind of thing. Yep. And it's a joy to work with actors like you guys where, you know, pretty much within three or four takes, we have what we need and we move on.
And then sort of the style of shooting with Yasu and how it's sort of got a free flow, handheld style.
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Chapter 5: What challenges did Toby face regarding his medication?
And I know you guys were talking about this a little bit before, like the sort of attention to detail with regards to being off your medication. and sort of not feeling like yourself, right? There was nothing about it that felt overplayed. And I say this all the time because Brown overplays everything, especially in This Is Us.
But on purpose. I would say the opposite.
The opposite.
I would say, I have a degree in theater and a minor in overacting.
I found it so just, there was this internal tension knowledge of, I know I need to move. I know I need to be present. I know I should be doing something. Taking care of my wife. You could see it in your head. And then there was just this physical manifestation, but I can't. I can't move. I know what I'm supposed to do, but I don't physically know how to do it.
So because of that, I just will be still. That was incredibly arresting to me to be like, oh, this poor guy. He wants to, like you can see it. He's so locked in himself. But he just can't do it. So I'm curious, because you guys were having a little bit of a conversation about like tonally how upbeat or down you want it to.
So I'm sure you did different takes with regards to this thing that I'm talking about. Talk to me a little bit about navigating it.
Do you remember?
Well, I will say that when I found out you were directing this episode, I was over the moon. I was so excited. You, of all the directors that we worked with on this show, are the most... Well, I can only speak from my experience. The most Chris Sullivan friendly. I was going to say actor friendly. I don't know everybody else's experience.
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Chapter 6: How does music play a role in Kate's life?
We've talked about this, yeah. Which is funny, because now folks of a certain age grew up on that show. So when I did Workaholics, those guys all grew up on that show.
Gotcha. Okay.
You know, so that was a great way to get started. So I was in that kind of kid world for a while. And so, yeah, like I know kind of how to work with kids, but, you know, to be honest with you, the casting on this show was so great. Sure. It's not like I had to do it. Tell us about this kid. Yeah. Because he comes out the gate swinging.
He just, well, you know, the thing is, you just, like, let him play himself, right? It's not like he did something and I was like, oh, do this differently. Like, he just was dialed in, really, you know? I mean, he's very, he just, you know, he's just very subtle and very powerful in his quietness.
Yeah.
which is great casting, right? Because that's how you're playing it. And he doesn't know that going in, really. He hasn't hung out with you. How much time do you spend with that kid before the episode? I've never met him. Exactly. That's my point.
Dylan, if you're out there, let's hang out, bro. Have you even watched the show? What show? What show are you talking about? Paradise? Yeah. Love it.
It's fantastic. Don't tell me how it ends. Stop.
Have you seen this guy in the shower?
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Chapter 7: What is the significance of the prom storyline?
So it's in season three that we find out that he's been taking antidepressants so that he doesn't just cry in his pillow all the time and is able to stay upbeat.
But I do think that it is illuminating seeing the manifestation of where his humor kind of...
comes from like there is that light to him but also it to me felt like this is his way of sort of trying to brighten yeah his mom's day as well like she's sad she's overwhelmed and it's it becomes you know a tool in his toolbox like further down the road i mean you are the levity of our show a lot of funny people are have a history i was gonna say yeah
comes from a very dark place. Trying to brighten the mood in their life. We're the comedy cellar in New York at midnight.
Yeah.
Pretty evident. See a group of people all with the same mom.
Who else here hates their mother?
Yeah. I mean, you love her, but you love to hate her. Anyway.
In the present day with you and Kate, so we're eagerly anticipating what's gonna happen with the- Embryos. With the embryos, yes.
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Chapter 8: How do Toby and Kate's storylines intersect?
The first thing we see on the- The montage. The first thing we see on the door, she has eight is enough, right? Yeah. With eight each up there. And then we find out that three of them are viable. Yeah, three amigos. So we go two to three amigos. And then eventually off the phone, we see that one- has taken, right?
The Three Amigos picture was creepy, though. It was a little creepy. A little bit, yeah.
With the little sombreros on.
Yeah, and the weird little... I mean, the cultural appropriation is astounding.
I don't know if we could do it today.
Yeah.
Not sure how it holds up. No. There is, but they're warning... One remains. Toby's warning, like, we're not going to take a pregnancy test because that causes stress, and what we want is to maintain a calm environment. Right.
know what i'm saying and so they split up for the day she's uh gonna stay busy yeah stay busy kate's got uh a delagram is that what we're i guess that's a thing yeah she's singing a dollar singing job is singing a dollar right right let's talk like just just just to just give metz her her credit or whatnot like you don't just step into adele no no You know what I mean?
Like, the writers have to say, like, oh, you can handle it, though. Yeah. The first time, like, I met Chrissy or whatnot, she said, like, sometimes I do karaoke. I'll do, like, The Greatest Love and stuff. I was like, oh. Oh, Whitney. Just Whitney? You do a little Whitney.
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