Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Simone Sanders Townsend and I have known each other for more than a decade, sometimes going head to head as White House reporter and White House staffer. But now we're friends and colleagues dissecting what comes across our feed, just like everybody else.
On our new podcast, MSNOW presents Clock It, we are positioning ourselves at the intersection of culture and politics.
Clock It is where we talk about what we see and hear in the news so you can start to clock it too. Because while most political coverage is focused on the White House and the Hill, the real political games, they're being played outside on football builds, TV screens, and social media.
And to fight back in this crazy world and to win the war of ideas and the war for what's right, the people need to know exactly what's going on. They gotta clock it. Come on.
Chapter 2: How did Rosie Perez's early life influence her career?
MS Now presents Clock It. First episode drops Thursday, February 12th. Follow now for ad-free listening and bonus content. Subscribe to MS Now Premium on Apple Podcasts.
Now clock that. When I saw the five-year-old. Liam. That's what broke me.
Yeah.
That's when the tears came. Because I have a grandson. I couldn't imagine. The fear that little kid was going through. That blank stare of shock that he displayed, that's what broke me. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Best People Podcast. This is a first. The best people are always iconic. They're always brilliant.
Sometimes they're really, really funny, but never before have I brought you someone who is also one of my best friends. This week's guest is an icon in her own right. nominated for every award that exists, Oscars, Emmys, you name it. She's made all sorts of firsts, but she's also one of my dearest friends. And that's hard as women in jobs like these.
But I want you to hear from her as much of the time as we have together. I hope it's her voice, her wisdom, her laugh. So without any further ado, this is The Best People, and this is my dear friend, Rosie Perez. Hi. Hi. Oh my God. Do I have to give you like a C note for that introduction? I mean, I've never had anyone that knows me well enough to crack me open.
And I think because it makes me nervous, right? So you're obviously one of the best people I know. You were on all of the earliest lists of the kinds of people that we would want to bring in, but you know me too well. So I waited. Yeah.
but you're here now i'm so happy me too me too i mean i guess the first thing is our origin story and i have to say that you're too deep and real for it to have been like love at first sight i think we kind of endured something fucking crazy the first day in the first week But I feel like it took longer to earn your trust and to become friends. But I tell two stories about The View.
When Whoop was out and we were sort of holding it together, and I think they were like on the street looking for anchors before they thought I could do it. And you one day walked out And I remember you saying to someone, she's going to be a fucking anchor someday. You guys are idiots. And you left. Yeah.
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Chapter 3: What motivated Rosie Perez to advocate for social issues?
And then I told everyone they were fucking idiots. That's what, yeah, I did. I said, she's going to be an anchor. I said, and you're going to feel really stupid. And look at you now. But it wasn't like, I would never have said that and advocated for myself. Politics is all sort of behind your back, behind, you know, and this was just a world I didn't really know that much about.
And I'd never seen anyone sort of use their power for somebody else like that. Thank you for doing that.
Yeah.
It's my pleasure. I don't do it for everyone. It's just when it's well-deserved, yes. I'll tell you when things changed between you and I. It was, for me, I made a statement about George W. Bush, right? And you kind of smirked my way, and I go, what? And it wasn't a great comment. Let's just say that. And you said, I bet if you met him in person, you would like him. I said, no, I wouldn't.
You can go, yes, you would. I said, no, I wouldn't. You said, yes, you would, because you are much more of a moderate than you want to admit you are. And I went, oh, shit, she figured me out. I mean, it takes one to know one. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And then you said you see both sides of the argument. And that's when I started looking at you differently.
I just was like, wow, because somebody else, if they would have presented that statement to me, I would have maybe taken it the wrong way. But there was it wasn't combative in any kind of way. There was no agenda behind it. It was just a funny statement that held truth. And so I remember I looked at you and I went, yeah, I don't know. And you started laughing.
Well, because someone else there was so... agitated by the idea that behind these policies she hated was a human being.
And I mean, that's Rosie O'Donnell, obviously, and I'm not a Republican anymore, but being a Republican and moving to New York and going to The View as a person that there was some preconceived notion that I was always going to carry the Republican water at the time that the Republican Party was being taken over by Donald Trump.
It's like, in some ways, we were like a canary in the coal mine, right? And I get fired because I wasn't Republican-y enough, right? Which is funny to me because George W. Bush, when I first moved to New York, was loathed for a lot of decisions that were very unpopular. That's an understatement. Right?
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Chapter 4: How does Rosie Perez feel about the current political climate?
They were struggling and they wanted something to change on that level. That was it. That was it. And it blew my mind that so many people were on the same page, regardless of party. And I just kept trying to tell the campaign that, and nobody was listening to me. How do they feel now? I've gotten apologies. Not from everybody, but I've gotten apologies. How do those voters feel now, though?
If the economy was what they wanted, do they feel... They feel disappointed. They feel disappointed because they truly believed in Trump and saying that on day one, he was going to fix the economy. And that is not the case right now. So they feel disappointed. And that's even some of the MAGA in my family.
You know, I have one particular MAGA person in my family, you know, she told me the other day, all right, listen, I'm just going to be honest. I said, what? And she goes, I don't agree with everything that this man is doing right now. And I went, oh my God, what date is it today? I'm going to write this down. She goes, if you keep on, I'm going to hang up. I said, okay, okay. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And the number one issue was the economy. It was the economy. And then the second issue, to my surprise, was ICE. I said, really? Because that was the second reason why she voted for him. One was the economy. Second was immigration. And so my point is, is that there's so many Americans right now are feeling the same way and we're not talking to each other.
And that is a disservice to ICE. us as a nation. It really, really is. Because if we start to figure out that we're having common ground, we can work from there. Like to everyone's surprise, I love Joe Rogan. And people go, oh my God, how can you love him? I said, he's great. He's great on the UFC. I just think he's a funny guy. And I don't think he's a bad guy.
I don't agree with everything that he says, but that doesn't mean I have to hate him for it. You know, and I hope he doesn't hate me because of my political views. But I sat there watching a clip of him saying the treatment of American citizens, even the treatment of... undocumented is going too far. My mouth just dropped on the floor. And I said, wow, this is great.
And then someone says, are you shocked? I go, you know what? Not really, because I think he's a decent guy. And that's where we're at. Everyone is terrified right now. Everyone is terrified to speak their mind, to come on podcasts like these in fear of the consequences. And the consequences are real right now. You know, two people are dead right now.
There's been multiple people who have died because of immigration and freedom of your right to protest and what have you, but to live in fear and not having the wherewithal to push through it is where we are right now. And that's why we're not moving forward as a nation. You know, the fear is real. The fear is real.
But when I think about what history has taught us, you think about someone like Martin Luther King, right? He knew, he didn't know concretely, but he knew his day was coming because he took a stand. When I was listening to Terry Gross on Fresh Air, this is Terry Gross on Fresh Air. Sorry, I love how she said that.
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Chapter 5: What experiences shaped Rosie Perez's views on fear and bravery?
It's like, what is going on? That's what I mean. It's like everything has gone way too far and it has resulted literally in the death of of two people and the shooting of many and people in the detention centers. And then there's no accountability. And then they're defying court orders and on and on and on. The insanity just needs to stop. It really does. And then if I say that I'm anti-American,
If I say that I'm a libtard or libertard, however they want to call me, it's ridiculous.
Chapter 6: How does Rosie Perez connect her advocacy to personal experiences?
First of all, you know I'm not a liberal by any means. And so what's going on is really, really scary. It really is scary. And if you're not scared, take your head out of the sand and wake up. Really, it's terrifying. That's my opinion on it. And it goes back to... Forever of the need for immigration reform. You can't have ICE be the number one funded law enforcement in the entire nation.
How many billions of dollars have they been given? Gazillion. Yeah. And you just can't do that and just give them this absolution of power. It's not American. It really isn't. And I have to say it again, people, you may disagree with me. That's fine. It's my right to say it as an American. We do need some type of enforcement on immigration. We do.
And we do need to get hardened, violent criminals out of our country. We do. But somebody who has applied for asylum and is going to court and following the paperwork, you're really going to do that to them? You're going to put them on that same level? It's sad. It's really, really sad. And I've texted you. I'm crying. My husband goes, please, Rose, turn off the TV.
Because I'm watching this and I'm literally sobbing. My friend Peter came over to dinner. He goes, you all right? I said, no. No, I've been crying all day. I've been crying all day. It's just, it's too much. I mean, I think that what people feel, when you look at the numbers just on the Trump side, the promise is to remove the worst of the worst. The worst of the worst are primarily in jail.
They're adjudicated criminals. By and large, the people they're targeting at preschools and at landscaping jobs and at schools and in hospitals are not people who've committed any crimes, let alone violent crimes. And I think the people on the streets, and Renee Nicole Goode was blowing a whistle for the people sort of targeting... people who are parts of our communities.
But this issue of going into schools and using a five-year-old as bait and going into hospitals and people afraid to take their severely ill children to the hospital because they're afraid they'll get separated, either the child deported or the mother deported, or, you know, does feel like an effort to break the fabric of our society. Yeah. I think when I saw the five-year-old... Liam.
That's what broke me.
Yeah.
That's when the tears came. Because I have a grandson. I couldn't imagine the fear that little kid was going through. That blank stare of shock that he displayed, that's what broke me. But I think that it really started when... actors were calling me, asking me to stand up. And I said, well, are you going to stand up too? No, I can't because I have a deal in place. And I go, I understand.
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Chapter 7: What challenges does Rosie Perez face while campaigning?
We don't know yet because we haven't seen anything concretely that would point to, ah, see, now they're in control. This is what's happening. I want to just wait and see, but it is troubling. It is very, very troubling. I mean, it's happening in our world too, obviously. And then also it's like fewer people making the bigger decisions. That's troubling. You know what I mean? So you don't have...
As many various different platforms that you can say, oh, they don't want me. Well, maybe this platform may want me or what have you. But I just want to wait and see what happens to see if that is the case. But everybody in Hollywood is going, oh my God, what the fuck? Just to be honest, they are. They're scared. everybody's scared. I'm scared. Everyone's scared.
That's the whole thing is that, you know, everyone thinks like I'm talking to you and I look so brave. I'm terrified. Yeah. I'm terrified. Of what? Like one comment will be taken out of context and attacked by the right and the left or both or all or none.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it's just like, you know, you take a chance. You take a chance and it is scary. Yeah. It is a scary place to stand in. And I just hope if anybody takes anything away from our conversation, it's what I went back to in the beginning. Even Martin Luther King was scared. It's not what you do or don't do because you're scared. It's like, it's baked in that we're all scared. It's a scary moment.
And then what do you do while you feel afraid? Yeah. Yeah. Both. And I guess I have covered the institutions, obviously, for the last nine years. And I watched one by one as they fell. For me, it was sad that the Republicans in Congress didn't believe anything they said they believed, right? And so for me, watching all the institutions fail, and Eric Holder said it in last week's
podcast that the Republicans in Congress failed. The Congress, by and large, failed. The Justice Department has fallen. The Pentagon appears to be falling under Hegseth. And so to me, to see the people of Minneapolis be the ones that say, this stops with us, and the you know, I don't know the minds of every single voter in Minneapolis.
I'm sure they feel as you do that we have to have, you know, we're a country of laws. We have to have laws when it comes to immigration. But they're not targeting people who've broken any laws. They're just rounding up people who, you know, don't look like white people. That is what the people of Minneapolis have said. And they've drawn this line. To see them...
out there with literally whistles and cell phones in a span of 17 days, two of them pay with their lives. It is a remarkable thing that as scared as we are, we get to have this conversation. We have all sorts of privileges that people out there walking the streets, businesses that close and can't really afford the losses, but they close because it matters what's happening in their community.
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Chapter 8: How does Rosie Perez view the impact of her work in the community?
Like Scott Galloway has got all these things that you can do from your keyboard. And I think there are a whole bunch of people who are really afraid and who are now afraid for themselves and their kids to be out in the streets because it's clear that ICE has no qualms. Using force. I think the reason the country changed is because the price of protests became clear.
You could pay with your life, right? You could pay with your life. And I think that's what woke people up. The people are out there. It's also freezing. Like it's freezing in New York. It's whatever is 10 steps beyond freezing in Minneapolis. And they're out there every day. Every day.
But I think that the space that I'm trying to understand better is what people can do in the safety or privacy of their own homes in terms of changing their spending patterns. Yeah, because brick and mortar is not really a thing as it was before. So you can't force companies to change like with the Jimmy Kimmel. It was All you had to do was this.
That was your protest.
And no one knew, right? And nobody knew. Nobody knows your name. There's not going to be someone on Twitter or on Instagram saying, you, you piece of shit. You canceled Disney. You, you liberal. You are a lefter. I feel like someone on the left has to like reappropriate. Like the right is so good with the smears that they just make you feel like an idiot. But
I don't even know what the... Like, you call someone MAGA, they're happy. They're proud. Why are liberals so afraid of being called that? But people, I'm not a liberal. Why did that become so negative? Because of their campaign. They're just good at branding. They're not standing so much on a righteous level.
Yeah.
They're standing more on a cunning... I bet you this is going to work level. And, you know, I think the left has tried that and they failed miserably. You know, you even mentioned to me, you said you don't tweet as much as you used to. I said, yeah, I do. I still tweet boxing. And you were like, come on. You know, you were calling me on it. And I said, well, you're absolutely right.
Because for me, it just wasn't effective. And I was becoming a part of an algorithm that I didn't want to become. part of. And there were people who were on the far left who were telling me what to tweet. And I'm like, I'm not going to tweet that. You guys sound stupid. But it's, I don't know. I don't know why they're better at it, but they are. They are. They're good at the trash talk.
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