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Chapter 1: What concerns does Senator Warnock have about Trump's actions leading up to the midterms?
Hey, everybody. We've got a good one with Raphael Warnock up next. We get into some heavy matters. You're speaking to a pastor and I kind of, you know, I feel like I've got the presence of God with me. I don't want to be a sinner, you know, and I don't want to completely give in to my worst impulses of sin. Mocking my neighbor.
And so I decided to keep this little section where I mock Nancy Mace right at the top without Raphael Warnock involved so I can do it free of any lingering Catholic guilt. Nancy Mace, don't know if you saw it, lost last night in her South Carolina race for governor. I'm going to go through for you the final election results here in the South Carolina governor's race.
There were some other elections last night, which we've talked about. Plattner wins in Maine. Unfortunately, Lindsey Graham avoids a runoff in the Senate. The only one that really, really catches my eye is this governor's results. So if you hadn't seen it, stick with me here because it might take a second to get to Nancy. First place advancing to the runoff, Lieutenant Governor Pamela Yvette.
She received 28.9% of the vote, which is kind of an embarrassment for Trump as well. While we're adding embarrassments to this, Trump endorsed her and couldn't even get her to a third of the vote. She almost loses that first round. Alan Wilson... who Nancy Mace accused of being a pedophile protector. He ends up at 26%.
Unclear if that's because the voters of South Carolina did not believe Nancy Mace's attacks on Alan Wilson or whether South Carolina Republican primary voters are into pedophile protectors now, since that's what the president's doing. I'm not sure why it was that he did so well, but there it is, 26% for Alan Wilson.
Ralph Norman, insurrectionist Ralph Norman turned Nikki Haley endorser in the 2024 primary. Strange character. He finishes at 17%. So I think that's important to know. Somebody that endorsed against Trump in the 2024 primary, third place, 17%. A man named Rom Reddy, R-O-M Reddy. It's a strange name. R.O.M. Reddy, he's a weird-looking fella. I can't lie. I don't know anything about Rom Reddy.
I can't give you one fun fact about him. He got 14.2%, fourth place. Coming in in fifth place, Congresswoman Nancy Mace, 12.1% of the vote. Fifth place.
Many people on social media noted that was the same place that anti-trans activist Riley Gaines finished in her swim meet that started her career as somebody whose number one issue is making sure that trans girls can't participate in women's sports because it's unfair to her. As somebody who tied for fifth place in a meet that she did not get nominated. Fifth place as a standalone.
That's what Riley Gaines wanted. Her and Nancy now have this in common. They are both singularly focused on checking the genitals of middle school sports athletes. And they've both finished fifth place in their most significant campaigns. So it's nice that they have that bond together. I do have to note the deliciousness of this.
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Chapter 2: How does Senator Warnock view the impact of gerrymandering on democracy?
Very delicious. I am enjoying in your pain. And I did want to get that out of the way before I talked to the pastor at MLK's church up next. It's Senator Raphael Warnock. Stick around. I don't know about you, but for me, if I'm excited about something, whether that be a pod interview, an article I want to write, a hot take I want to pop off, for example.
I just popped off a bonus hot take that you should go check out in the Bulwark Takes feed on this insane New York Times article about a Situation Room meeting about the Epstein cover-up. Absolutely got to go listen to that. If I'm excited like that, if I'm so excited I'm going to promote it in the middle of an ad read, it means I'm going to do a better job at it.
Chapter 3: What insights does Warnock share about the recent Supreme Court ruling?
It means the content's going to be better. If I'm half-assing something, like the laundry... it means you're going to get wrinkled shirts like I have on right now. And this is a lesson that you can apply to hiring.
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Delighted to welcome to the show a Democratic senator from Georgia, senior pastor of Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta. He's got a new book coming out next week, The Crooked Place is Made Straight, Reflections on the Moral Meaning of America. It's Raphael Warnock. How are you doing, Senator? I'm great. Good to see you. Great to be with you. Man, thank you. Welcome to the show.
Been wanting to do this for a minute. We're going to do some God talk, some book talk at the end of the pod. You know, maybe take me to church a little bit, but we got to do a little news first, if that's all right. Sure.
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Chapter 4: How does Senator Warnock address the issue of despair among voters?
Yesterday, the president put out a post saying that he was actually moving up the timeline for Bill Pulte. to be the Director of National Intelligence. Pulte obviously has no experience for this, no background.
He was like a MAGA scam artist before taking over the housing group inside the administration where they were going after people based on their mortgages if they were foes of the president. What did you make of that? I mean, there's been a lot of pushback in the Senate against the president on this nomination.
And not only is he not pulling back on Pulte, he's stepping on the gas trying to move it up 11 days.
Yeah, I don't know what the president is thinking. Bill Pulte is a non-starter. Full stop. You know, as someone who represents the people of Georgia, Fulton County, I'm deeply troubled by the prospect of Bill Pulte having his hands on our national intelligence. You know, the Fulton County Board of Elections was raided by the Trump administration last
It was an FBI raid, but the DNI was there, Tulsi Gabbard. Pote has already demonstrated that he's more than willing to lie, more than willing to engage in scandalous behavior at best to try to besmirch the reputation of whoever Trump perceives to be his enemies. And so that should be deeply concerning for all Americans, because that's Democrats and Republicans.
So I don't know what the president is thinking just in practical terms. In terms of his agenda, we are in the midst of debating the FISA legislation right now. That legislation cannot pass without some Democratic votes. And I don't see how he has a shot with Polte being the fly in the ointment.
Yeah, and I guess it seems to me that he cares more about having a hatchet man at DNI than he does about FISA, you know, because this was really some of the biggest pushback we've seen from a bipartisan group of senators, you know, saying that they're not going to go forward with FISA. And his response to that was, OK, well, we're just going to put him in earlier.
Exactly. I looked at this appointment when it was announced a few days ago, and I said to myself, is there any part, any part, Donald Trump's job that he takes seriously. These are matters of national intelligence. The man is unqualified. He knows nothing about national intelligence. And, you know, apparently one of the qualifications for appointments to the Trump
administration is that you have to be wholly unqualified. So that would be Pete Hexess. That would be RFK. We could go on and on. But we're talking about the nation's national security. And that's serious business. There are enemies that want to hurt us, who want to kill Americans.
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Chapter 5: What are the challenges facing Democrats in engaging younger voters?
There are some issues with Pfizer. that there's some reform that needs to be happening. And we need to be engaged in that debate right now in a fulsome way. Because it's really about how do you balance security on the one hand and civil liberties on the other? And those are issues that I take very seriously.
And I wish we were having a robust debate about that in the Senate right now and in the Congress, rather than having to be aggravated And distracted by a ridiculous nomination of the likes of Bill Pulte.
Do you have a sense for what they're trying to do in Fulton County? Like, I mean, at this point, have you had any additional oversight or information? I mean, why was Tulsi there? Do you have a sense for what kind of shenanigans Bill Pulte could get up to, you know, with regards to the elections?
Donald Trump knows he can't win. He knows that the American people are not buying what he's selling. As a candidate, he said he was going to keep us out of wars and lower our costs. He's done the exact opposite. Regardless of your politics, you've got to acknowledge that what we're witnessing is the exact opposite. We are in yet another war in the Middle East.
with no apparent end game, no clear objectives. This president has ordered more attacks on more nations than any president in modern American history. And meanwhile, Georgians are standing at the gas pump today wondering why is it costing so much of their income just to be able to get around in their cars and then to go to grocery stores where they can't afford the groceries.
So, you know, what is he up to in Fulton County? He's up to the same thing he's up to in the whole country. He's trying to cast doubt. on the coming election, which he knows he is on target to lose by continuing to besmirch an election that happened six years ago. Think about that. They went to Fulton County to smash windows, if you will, smash and grab ballots, ballots from 2020.
Some of the folks who were elected in that in that election are no longer even in office. And, you know, apparently my election and John Ossoff's election and Joe Biden's election was a fraud. And on the same ballot, the members of the Georgia congressional delegation, most of whom are Republican, I guess there was no fraud in that part of the ballot and fraud on our... I mean, explain it to me.
It doesn't make sense, which is why he stormed off the other day when a journalist on Meet the Press, when Kirsten tried to challenge him on this issue. He's trying to muddy up the election and sow the seeds and seed the ground for the ways in which I think they're going to come for the democracy and come for the integrity of elections if he doesn't get the outcome he wants in the fall.
Yeah, let's talk about the other ways they've been trying to muddy with the elections. And that was this mid-decade redistricting fight that they kicked off that then culminates with the Calais ruling a little bit ago now. We've seen changes in Louisiana, where I live, that cancel people's votes.
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Chapter 6: How does Warnock define the relationship between faith and politics?
That's what gerrymandering is. I have a bill that would ban gerrymandering. I support what California did. I support what Virginia did. And because we can't, as Democrats, we can't afford to unilaterally disarm. I think we've got to not just win this election. We've got to save our doggone democracy. And so in light of that, we can't unilaterally disarm.
But I would support banning partisan gerrymandering altogether. I think the democracy would be much better off. I have a bill to do that. So far, I've had no Republican takers. If folks are watching this and they don't like seeing this race to the bottom, we could end this tomorrow. But I've been speaking to my Republican friends.
I actually said to the Speaker of the House yesterday when he and I had a private meeting, hey, Mr. Speaker, why don't you join me in this anti-germandering bill? So far, no takers.
No tickers. I want to come back to that meeting in a second. I'm just I'm just wondering, though. OK, so they're not going to play by the rules. We know that they're trying to rig the system. They don't care. They'd be happy for there to be no majority minority districts in the South like that. This is not a value to the Republicans at all. And so, okay, what are the tools at disposal?
You mentioned California and Virginia fighting back. Another one is just galvanizing people, pushing back with people power, turnout in the next election, trying to use this against them in places where there's a backlash, where people might tend to want to be more conservative, but they don't want to rip away all the black representation in the South.
People don't want to go back to 1964 in the country. Some people don't. Where does the energy come from? to change something before this midterm or as we look forward to 2028?
No, we should be very clear. This is Jim Crow in new clothes. This is a move, thanks to the Supreme Court, thanks to partisan politicians who are only focused in getting an advantage. They're busy trying to move the South. And it breaks my heart. I'm a child of the South. representing the South, they're trying to move us back to the darkest days in our country's history.
When there was no representation of Black people, no Black representation in Congress, and they're going after these districts. And when people ask me, what the Supreme Court, let me just say what the Supreme Court did was deeply intellectually dishonest. They basically said, not only to folks in terms of congressional districts, but even local races, that you can engage in gerrymandering,
just say that it's not about race. Just give us another explanation. And the onus is on the other folks who are petitioning to prove what's in your mind. And it's deeply dishonest because the racial lines and the partisan lines in the South, particularly, sadly, they're not the exact same lines, but There's a lot of continuity between those two things for obvious reasons.
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Chapter 7: What personal experiences shape Senator Warnock's perspective on faith?
out of many one. That's who we are. We've had to fight to get there. And I have to tell you, as I move around, every now and then I literally have people, some folks have pulled me out of a parade that I was walking in, and they're literally grabbing me by my lapel and saying, please save us. Please save us. And what I say to those citizens is, I'm going to do everything I can to fight for you.
Because, you know, I'm inspired by leaders, some of whom are still with us. You know, I live in Atlanta, so I walk among the giants of the civil rights movement. Andy Young is my friend and my mentor. John Lewis was my parishioner. I know that there are folks who came before us who didn't have any reason to believe that they could win.
And so what I say to those citizens who say to me, please save us, I'm gonna fight for you, but you don't get to outsource democracy. All of us have to fight. And the good news is that the tools, I do believe, the tools in our democratic experiment
If we have citizens of courage who are willing to will them, showing up to vote, protest, raising your voice, engaged in the system, that the way to fight this assault is to expand the margins of the democracy, even as they're trying to contract them. And this midterm election is an important moment in that struggle. But we can't wait until November.
We've got to be engaged in the fight right now.
Did you talk to those civil rights leaders that came before you about that personal quest, though, that personal challenge, like how you deal with lack of belief that things could get better? I mean, they all had to go through that, right? I assume they felt like that things weren't ever going to get better.
Well, you know, right after the civil rights bill was passed into law, Dr. King and other members of his staff said, went to see President Johnson. Andy Young told me this story. And he said that they walked in the office, and the president, of course, was ebullient and joyful that they had passed the civil rights bill into law. And Dr. King said, great, we passed that bill into law. Wonderful.
I need a voting rights law. Like he didn't skip a beat. I need voting rights. My people cannot vote. And if you can't vote, you're not a citizen.
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Chapter 8: What closing thoughts does Senator Warnock have on fighting for democracy?
15th Amendment had passed, remember, 100 years earlier. So folks would say, well, who's stopping you from voting? They just, you're ignoring our history. Black people had the right to vote on paper when the 15th Amendment was passed 100 years before the Civil Rights Movement, but they couldn't vote. And so Dr. King said, my people can't vote.
And the president began to say, well, I hear what you're saying, Dr. King, but I can't get that done right now. I don't have the power to do it. And they left the meeting and the staff was feeling demoralized and feeling dejected. And they said, Dr. King, what are we going to do? The president of the United States said that he doesn't have the power right now.
doesn't have the power to get us the franchise. And Dr. King looked at them and he said, well, if the president doesn't have the power, I guess we're gonna have to go to the South and get himself. Here he is, an ordinary citizen. What do you think about that? An ordinary citizen. He doesn't hold an office. He's not a United States Senator. He's the pastor of a little church on Auburn Avenue.
And he said, if the president, the most powerful man on the planet, doesn't have the power to get us our votes, we're gonna go and get him some. And so when you see John Lewis and Hosea Williams crossing that Edmund Pettus Bridge with brute force under the color of law on the other side, and they keep on walking, they're literally answering President Johnson's question.
They're going to get the president some power to create the context for the change that they wanna see in the world. And I'm sitting here as a result of that. And so there are moments when I do have to push back against despair, but I refuse to give in to those who are trying to weaponize despair. The way you respond is you keep walking.
The thing that I worry about, and, you know, I recognize this as like a white guy podcaster. This kind of is an unfair question to put it on black folks to have to fight for their own rights again after all this time. But you look at it and it just like is like the reality of our political situation where like some people have rights. succumbed to despair.
And like you look at the 2024 election and, you know, turnout was higher among obviously Trump's base, among white voters, black men, younger black men in particular voted at a higher rate for Trump than they had in the past. And so now we're in the middle of the civil rights fight. And it's like, how do you engage with those voters that the Democrats lost?
And Jon Favreau, you're on Pod Save America. He asked you about this question. I thought it was interesting that the first thing that you said was, Like talking to young black men, you basically just said that fighting against sexism and for women's rights doesn't mean that you're not fighting for young men, right? Like you can do both.
And the fact that you started with that made me wonder if like you think that that is part of the problem where basically younger black men like don't feel like the Democrats like care about them and are fighting for them. Is that a challenge you think in trying to get people back motivated, you know, or is there something else?
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