Full Episode - Kristi Noem Should Be Fired…But Will She? + The 1980s Blueprint for Today’s Culture Wars

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What political fallout occurred after the fatal shootings in Minneapolis?

Unknown 0:00

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Chuck Todd 0:04

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How is Kristi Noem's position being affected by GOP infighting?

Chuck Todd 0:39

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Chuck Todd 1:25

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What historical context does Heather Ann Thompson provide about the Bernie Goetz shooting?

Chuck Todd 2:21

Still, I think my middle aged back is recovering from the snow shoveling. And shall we say trying to participate in the transportation system in America after a big snowstorm is never the easiest thing to do. but I have made it to where I need to get in getting through as many friendly skies as I can get through. But look, we begin today with what was clearly what Tuesday turned into for President Trump. In the grand scheme of things, Tuesday was supposed to be the day that Donald Trump started to turn the page on this crazy, chaotic January that's been a disaster. They set up this big event in Iowa to focus on affordability. And affordability and the White House focusing on affordability feels like we are reliving what happened in the first term with infrastructure.

Chuck Todd 3:19

Every week, this was going to be the week they focused on infrastructure.

How did media narratives shape public perception during the 1980s?

Chuck Todd 3:24

Every week is the week that the White House is going to turn its attention to affordability and whether it's the president stepping on that message himself for a variety of reasons or events. that, like what's happening in Minneapolis, essentially start to consume the president. And it's pretty clear. As I sort of telegraphed for you on Monday, the walkback was coming. And certainly Tuesday was a lot of walkback. Let me just quote the president in one of his interviews, including this one was on Fox, when he was talking about getting rid of Greg Bovino. Greg Bovino is the guy that wears the long leather coat that for whatever reason, is excited that people will mistaken him for some 1930s European thug.

Chuck Todd 4:13

The first move the president made was essentially getting rid of Bovino, pulling him out of Minneapolis. Greg Bovino, who was and I'll quote him, as he said.

What parallels exist between the Goetz case and contemporary issues?

Chuck Todd 4:26

Well, I don't think it's a pullback. I think it's a change. You know, Bovino's very good, but he's a pretty out there kind of guy. And in some cases, that's good. Maybe it wasn't good here. And that was sort of the president all day on Tuesday.

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Chapters

8 chapters

1 What political fallout occurred after the fatal shootings in Minneapolis? 0:00–0:39 2 How is Kristi Noem's position being affected by GOP infighting? 0:39–2:21 3 What historical context does Heather Ann Thompson provide about the Bernie Goetz shooting? 2:21–3:24 4 How did media narratives shape public perception during the 1980s? 3:24–4:26 5 What parallels exist between the Goetz case and contemporary issues? 4:26–7:13 6 What factors contribute to the current political landscape in Iowa? 7:13–12:14 7 How is the Washington Post being impacted by recent staffing cuts? 12:14–13:25 8 What questions do listeners have about the future of American politics? 13:25–2:10:42

Speakers

4 identified

Chuck Todd 83 min Kristi Noem 35 min Unknown Heather Ann Thompson

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Topics in this episode

Donald Trump 2 ICE 2 Department of Homeland Security 1 Kristi Noem 3 Stephen Miller 2 Rand Paul 1 University of Michigan 1 Lisa Murkowski 1 Chuck Todd 1 Conference Board 1 Randy Feenstra 1 Philadelphia Fed 1

Source

Recorded28 Jan 2026

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Show notes

In this episode of the Chuck ToddCast, Chuck breaks down the mounting political fallout from a string of fatal and controversial shootings by federal immigration agents in Minneapolis, including the killing of ICU nurse Alex Pretti—an incident that has sparked protests, outrage, and deep questions about federal law-enforcement use of force. Bystander video and independent analysis have sharply contradicted official claims that Pretti posed a threat, amplifying criticism from local officials and national figures alike while the Trump administration has scrambled to contain the damage by removing the Border Patrol commander and sending veteran immigration official Tom Homan to Minneapolis to calm tensions. As Republicans in Congress publicly wrestle with how to respond—and some distance themselves from the administration’s actions—Chuck explores how Trump’s repeated emphasis on which voters supported him personally, rather than addressing the substance of the crisis, is complicating the situation politically. With Minneapolis emerging as a political disaster for Trump, the episode also looks at how Trump’s handling of Kristi Noem and broader GOP infighting could create openings for Democrats, especially as concern grows over civil liberties, federal overreach, and the credibility of government narratives in the face of widespread skepticism and media scrutiny. Then, historian Heather Ann Thompson discusses her new book “Fear and Fury: The Reagan Eighties, the Bernie Goetz Shootings and the Rebirth” that revisits the 1984 Bernie Goetz subway shooting and explains why it remains a chilling precursor to the racialized fear and political rage shaping America today. Thompson walks through who Goetz was, how he shot four unarmed Black teenagers, and how—without video evidence—the media constructed a vigilante narrative that erased the victims and fueled public support for Goetz despite his own recorded confession. She situates the case in a New York City gripped by crime, austerity, and racial anxiety, arguing that fear was real but deliberately misdirected by sensationalist media, tabloid culture, and political leaders who framed young Black men as the threat while stripping away public resources. The conversation traces how Reagan-era policies, talk radio, and the tabloidification of news helped turn crime into profitable outrage, laying the groundwork for stop-and-frisk, the Central Park Five, and ultimately the politics Donald Trump would later master. Thompson connects the Goetz case to today’s wealth inequality, media groupthink, and deep political divides over racialized violence, showing how these stories are not aberrations but part of a long continuum. The episode is a sobering examination of how fear, race, and media narratives can warp justice—and how understanding that history is essential to understanding where America is now. Finally, Chuck updates his ToddCast Top 5 governor’s seats most likely to flip in 2026, weighs in on the massive looming cuts to the staff at the Washington Post and answers listeners’ questions in the “Ask Chuck” segment. Get your wardrobe sorted and your gift list handled with Quince. Don't wait! Go to https://Quince.com/CHUCK for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too! Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get up to $3 million in coverage in as little as 10 minutes at https://ethos.com/chuck. Application times may vary. Rates may vary. Thank you Wildgrain for sponsoring. Visit http://wildgrain.com/TODDCAST and use the code "TODDCAST" at checkout to receive $30 off your first box PLUS free Croissants for life! Timeline: (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements) 00:00 Chuck Todd’s introduction 01:00 Trump attends Iowa event with “affordability message” 01:45 Trump begins to try to walk back from chaos in Minneapolis 02:30 Greg Bovino removed from border patrol role in Minneapolis 03:15 Trump keeps highlighting that Renee Good’s parents voted for him 04:15 Trump sent Tom Homan to Minneapolis to try & calm things down 05:30 Republicans in congress speak out after killing of Alex Pretti 06:30 Trump signals support for Kristi Noem, but could change his mind 07:30 Resentment from Senate R’s over some cabinet secretaries 09:15 Political infighting could become contagious but Trump will back Miller 11:00 Trump is playing political cleanup, but not firing Noem is a mistake 13:00 Not firing Noem would be a political gift for Democrats 14:00 Trump’s trade policy is creating trade deals for other countries, not us 14:45 Minneapolis creates permission slip for Republicans to distance themselves 15:15 Trump’s stop in Iowa was supposed to be a pivot 16:15 Consumer confidence shows the public behaving like it’s a recession 17:00 Consumer confidence lowest since 2014, worse than during pandemic 18:00 Public doubts the job market & job security 20:00 Trump claims inflation is over, that’s not what the public is feeling 21:15 Iowa ranks 50th in nation for economic growth, worst since the 80’s 22:00 Tariffs have devastated Iowa farmers 23:30 If Iowa goes blue, Democrats will win the house and senate 24:15 Trump’s policies have hurt Iowa more than other states 25:00 Trump’s economic message isn’t resonating 26:00 Trump really messed up his gun politics 27:30 Trump will throw anybody under the bus to protect himself 37:00 Heather Ann Thompson joins the Chuck ToddCast 38:30 Bernie Goetz was an early analog for the white rage we see today 39:30 Who was Bernie Goetz & what is the history of the story? 40:00 NYC felt like a city in crisis during the 80’s 41:00 Goetz shoots four unarmed black teenagers 42:00 There was no footage of the shooting & media shaped the event 43:00 Goetz was celebrated by white New Yorkers as a vigilante 43:45 Goetz gave lengthy video confession & still acquitted on most chargers 45:00 The victims have been completely written out of the story 46:00 Victims were denied compensation by the city’s crime victim fund 47:00 The shooting destroyed the victim’s lives even though they survived 48:45 New York felt like a city on the brink in the 1980’s 49:30 New Yorkers were living in fear of many parts of the city due to crime 50:45 Media clearly made the “threat” young black men 51:30 By 1984, trash was piling up and areas of NYC were underpoliced 52:30 The fear was warranted, but was misdirected by Rupert Murdoch, others 54:30 The Reagan administration doubled down on austerity 55:45 Eventually NYC experienced a renaissance, the “Guiliani miracle” 56:45 Austerity was sold on the idea of the “underserving” & criminal underbelly 57:45 Stop & frisk and other policies pushed underclass further away from Manhattan 58:30 Trump was a beneficiary of these politics & rode them to the White House 59:15 Trump is a creature of the 80’s since that era was best for him 1:00:30 Trump understood the power of television, fear & race baiting 1:01:15 Trump sells what the Reagan revolution sold, targeted working class whites 1:02:00 Impact of the Goetz story on the Central Park 5 story 1:03:30 The tabloidification of the national media was born out of 80’s NYC 1:04:30 Talk radio was central in turning crime into high rating media content 1:05:15 Subway shootings were rare, but everyone feared them 1:06:30 Reagan’s policies stripped away resources that led to working class crises 1:07:15 Reagan gutted multiple public programs 1:08:15 Under Reagan, the tax burden was shifted away from the wealthy 1:09:00 Similarities between the early 1900’s and early 2000’s 1:10:15 America is in a wealth inequality crisis & target of misinformation campaign 1:11:30 Media groupthink was a contributing factor to Bernie Goetz’s acquittal 1:12:15 Goetz case peeled back the veneer hiding overt racism 1:13:15 Media sands the edges of stories to avoid controversy over coverage 1:14:00 Sensationalist, conservative media has become very successful 1:15:30 Alternative press covered the Goetz story much differently 1:16:15 Bronx jury awarded one of the victims $43 million 1:17:00 Goetz shooting was an unhinged story, but shows how we got here 1:19:00 There are political dividing lines over racialized shootings 1:20:15 Society meant to aspire to wealth, but live with suspicion & fear on streets 1:21:00 What’s the thread between the urban stories that you’ve told? 1:22:00 There was a massive cover up at Attica 1:22:45 If it wasn’t Goetz, it would have been another similar incident 1:24:00 How long after an event do you think is the sweet spot for telling story? 1:26:15 As a society, we don’t have patience for context 1:26:45 Checking personal bias when reporting a historical event 1:29:30 What Heather is working on next 1:34:30 Chuck’s thoughts on interview with Heather Ann Thompson 1:35:15 ToddCast Top 5 governor’s seats most likely to flip 1:36:30 #1 Kansas 1:38:15 #2 Iowa 1:40:30 #3 Michigan 1:42:45 #4 Arizona #5 Nevada 1:45:00 The Washington Post announces major cuts to staff 1:45:45 Hard to understand what Bezos’s vision is for the Post 1:47:30 How can you be a local paper & not cover the community? 1:48:45 Post is losing $100m/year but Bezos’s burns tons of cash 1:49:15 Amazon set $75 million on fire for the Melania documentary 1:51:00 If Bezos wanted the Post to succeed he could have invested in it 1:53:15 Bezos should sell the Post rather than gutting it 1:55:15 The Post editorial page has been diminished under Bezos 1:57:00 Hopefully Bezos changes course 1:58:00 Ask Chuck 1:58:15 How long will this dark period of American history last? 2:04:30 At what point does a blatant lie from a politician qualify as fraud? 2:07:00 Chance that an Ossoff win could catapult him to nomination?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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