Grief Expert: Why Grief Demands a Witness (With David Kessler)
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What does it mean that grief has no timeline?
There is no timeline in grief. If you are, it's a week ago, it's a month ago, and you're sitting there witnessing. You're four years in, aren't getting out of the house, or you're not getting back in relationships. I'm going to be a little tougher coach.
There you go. Yeah. What's up? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so glad you're with us. We're talking about your emotional and mental health, your relationships, whatever you got going on in your life. I'm gonna sit here, I'm gonna sit with you, and we're gonna figure out what's the next right move. On today's episode, we have a second part of one of my favorite conversations I've ever had with one of my heroes, the great David Kessler. David Kessler is a world-renowned expert on grief, and nobody likes to talk about grief, but grief impacts every single person living and breathing right now, including you and including me. And we have to grieve the big things, the small things, and we have a grief-illiterate world, as he says. And so in this part two, we're talking about grief demanding a witness, something that I've been saying forever and ever, and I got the line from him, and so much more.
So I've got his book here, by the way, The Sixth Stage of Grief Workbook for anyone who's struggling, and we'll link to it in the show notes. So check out the second part of my conversation with the great David Kessler right here. The most powerful line you've given me is grief demands a witness.
Why is storytelling important in grief?
Grief demands a witness.
Every civilization, every faith community in all of human history have had a moment where people sit down and say, tell me your story. And so often, like, I lost my husband, lost my, stop, what was his name? Like, we're going to tell the story. There's something so powerful. Let me ask you this. You manage these amazing global online grief communities. I have... made the case, and tell me if I'm wrong, that in many ways, storytelling, being with, if you will, digitally is like Twinkies. It's calories, but it's not rich food. Have you noticed a difference between in-person and online?
I started there.
Okay.
How do online grief communities compare to in-person ones?
I mean, listen.
I love being wrong, so tell me if I'm wrong.
When the pandemic hit, people were like, you got to move online. And I was like, I don't know that emotions translate. And one of my buddies said, have you ever seen a movie? Oh, gosh, yes. Oh, all right, yeah. Now, here's the thing. On a Zoom call, I see your face just like this. I mean, I wish I could tell you. I mean, look, if you came in and you... smelled bad, I wouldn't know it on a Zoom. But every other thing, I get every little expression. And here's the thing, you know, people go, when they hear there's a grief group, they go, oh, I don't want to be online with six people. I'm like, no, no, there's hundreds. There's hundreds. And the shocking thing about it is there's some people who are like, hey, I got a question. I went,
You've asked a question yesterday, like, let's have, you know. But there's other people who are in the back, have never turned their Zoom on. They've never, you know, you can be anonymous or you can be in the front row. And one of the things that's shocking about it is I do topics, we do check-ins, and I do one-on-ones.
What should you do if you're struggling with grief?
And in the one-on-ones, it's me and that person, and hundreds of people are watching it. They don't get seen in that moment. We find each other in each other's stories. That's it. And we find our healing in each other's stories. I mean, I get tons of emails of people who go, oh my gosh, that person asked the question I didn't even know was the question I had that was the one I needed for my healing. Yeah. I would have never even thought to ask that. And they did. And you went there. And you healed them. And I go, I didn't heal them. They healed them. And you found your healing in them. And then in yourself. So I think it does work. It does work. Excellent. I think it does work.
All right. Well, thank you for changing my mind on that.
And I am never going to like be face-to-face with people in Australia and New Zealand and the UK and, you know, all over the US. And it's like such, and boy, let me tell you, when there's like, sometimes I'll do these free online events. We have 40,000 people.
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Chapters
7 chapters
1
What does it mean that grief has no timeline?
0:05–1:43
2
Why is storytelling important in grief?
1:43–2:34
3
How do online grief communities compare to in-person ones?
2:34–3:58
4
What should you do if you're struggling with grief?
3:58–5:09
5
Why do children need to learn about grief early?
5:09–5:56
6
What role do markers and ceremonies play in processing grief?
5:56–7:17
7
How can we teach kids about loss?
7:17–41:25