The Opinions: Bernie Sanders and Ruben Gallego
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What is the overall premise of the episode and why are Bernie Sanders and Ruben Gallego featured together?
Hi, I'm Juliette from New York Times Games, and I'm here talking to fans about our games. You play New York Times Games? Yes, every day. There's this little tab down here called Friends, so you can add your friend. That feels new to me. It is. It's nice to have the social aspect. Oh, my God, and you have all the times. That's crazy. Right? You can look at Spelling Bee, Wordle, Connections. Oh, my God, amazing. Love that. I'll have to get the app.
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My opinion colleague, David Leonhardt, has been doing these great interviews with Democratic politicians to ask, what is America's next story? And today I want to share two conversations in a series that focus on the question of how Democrats can win back the working class, a question we've talked about a lot on this show. These are two very different views. The first is with Senator Bernie Sanders, and the second is with Senator Ruben Gallego. And I think the ways in which these approaches converge and differ makes them particularly illuminating to listen to back to back. And if you haven't had a chance to check out our sister podcast where these are from, The Opinions, you should. The show spotlights all sorts of interesting arguments and thinkers from the Times opinion universe.
We will link to it in the show notes.
This is The Opinions, a show that brings you a mix of voices from New York Times Opinion. You've heard the news. Here's what to make of it.
I'm David Leonhardt, an editorial director in New York Times Opinion. And this is America's Next Story, a series about the ideas that once held our country together and those that might do so again.
We the people. In order to form a more perfect union. Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. America is too great for small dreams. Change is what's happening in America. And we will make America great again. God bless you and good night. I love you.
Today, my guest is Senator Bernie Sanders. Sanders has been talking about income inequality since the 1980s, back when he was mayor of Burlington, Vermont.
In our nation today, we have an extreme disparity between the rich and the poor.
He's been railing against oligarchs since the 1990s, before Elon Musk made his first million.
To a very great extent. The United States of America today is increasingly becoming an oligarchy.
Sanders started out as a political oddity, but his focus on inequality has turned him into one of the most influential politicians in America. You're about to hear a feisty conversation in which Sanders criticizes Democrats for not standing up for the working class, and I push him on what an authentic version of working class politics might look like. He also offers his take on the abundance movement, and he sketches out a progressive patriotism that can take back the country from Donald Trump. Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you for being here. My pleasure. I have to start by going back to your days as mayor of Burlington and thanking you for bringing minor league baseball to the city because I had family there and I would visit every summer and we would pick a week when the Vermont Reds were home and we would go every night.
That was a lot of fun. We worked hard on it and they turned out to be a great team. A lot of the guys who played there ended up in the majors. So it was very good for the community. We had a lot of fun.
My family were supporters of yours, and they got a big kick out of the fact that even though they were called the Reds because of the Cincinnati Reds, the one socialist mayor in America had a baseball team called the
Reds. Yes, we thought that was kind of fun.
Yes. Okay, let's get into it. I want to go back to the pre-Trump era and think about the fact that a lot of Democrats in that era—I'm thinking about the Clintons, Obama— felt more positively toward the market economy than you did. They were positive toward trade. They didn't worry that much about corporate power.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the overall premise of the episode and why are Bernie Sanders and Ruben Gallego featured together?
0:00–8:35
2
How does Bernie Sanders describe the historical shift of the Democratic Party away from working‑class voters?
8:35–15:00
3
What does Bernie Sanders say about income inequality, corporate power, and the need for a progressive patriotism?
15:00–22:04
4
Why does the host transition to Senator Ruben Gallego and what is his political background?
22:04–28:00
5
How does Senator Gallego explain his stance on immigration reform and border security?
28:00–37:26
6
What is the “abundance” debate and how do both guests position themselves on bureaucracy vs. corporate power?
37:26–50:45
7
Why do the guests talk about “big‑ass trucks,” prosperity, and relatable economic messaging for working‑class voters?
50:45–1:02:21
8
What final vision do Sanders and Gallego offer for America’s next story and the Democratic Party’s future?
1:02:21–1:09:40