542: The Science of Navigating Change, Grief, and Uncertainty | Maya Shankar, PhD
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What's going on, everybody? It's episode 542. Let's rock.
The Genius Life.
What's going on, everybody? I'm your host, Max Lugavere, and welcome back to The Genius Life. And before you guys email me, yes, I have a cold. I feel fine. It's on its way out, but obviously the laryngitis is still here. But rain or shine, the show must go on. I'm psyched to have you. Today's guest is Dr. Maya Shankar. She is a cognitive scientist. She's the host of A Slight Change of Plans. podcast and she's the author of the new book the other side of change who we become when life makes other plans this conversation that i had with her is all about why uncertainty messes with us so deeply sometimes even more than bad news why change can feel like an identity threat and what actually helps when just control your reaction sounds like a platitude instead of a plan
Maya shares her own story from a career-ending violin injury to profound personal loss and turns it into practical science-backed tools, anchoring your identity to your why, using simple self-affirmations to widen your lens when you're spiraling, and even how fiction can expand what you believe is possible. If you're in a season of change, this episode will serve as your compass. If you enjoy it, subscribe, leave a rating and review. It helps a ton. And if you want my free weekly newsletter, health research, expert insights, and occasional discounts with no spam ever, join at maxlugavere.com slash newsletter. Listen all the way through to the end. You're not going to want to miss a beat. And as always, don't forget to share this episode with friends and loved ones that you think may benefit from it.
And now with all that out of the way, I'm going to get myself some tea. Hope you enjoyed the episode. Maya Shankar, welcome to the show.
Thanks so much for having me, Max.
How are you doing?
I'm doing okay. How about you?
I'm doing great. I'm super excited to celebrate your new book. Thank you so much. Yeah, it's such an important topic. So let's just like jump right in. Why do some people seem to cave with uncertainty, with change, and yet others seemingly are able to reinvent themselves and use it as a force for good?
Yeah, so I'm one of the capers. I'm very scared of change. And like you said, part of that is because change is often accompanied by so much uncertainty. And we know from research that our brains are not wired to like uncertainty. So one of my favorite research studies shows that people are more stressed when they're told they have a 50% chance of getting an electric shock than when they're told they have a 100% chance of getting electric shock. Crazy. Yeah, it's wild, right? We would rather be certain, Max, that a negative bad thing is going to happen than to have to grapple with any uncertainty. And it sounds sort of nutty on its surface, but I at least resonate so much with that, which is I like having my hands firmly on the steering wheel.
I like dictating outcomes. I like for my life to be an input-output model. You know, if I try harder, better things will happen. And I want to know how the story ends. And so I'd rather just take the shocks than have to deal with any of that.
Would you describe yourself as a control freak?
Yes, I would. Recovering, recovering. I've been very humbled by my journey, three and a half year journey, writing The Other Side of Change, because as I mentioned, one of the reasons I got into this space is because I don't feel like I handle unexpected change particularly well in my life. And so one of the themes emerging from the interviews that I conducted for the book is the importance of relinquishing some of that control and letting parts of life unfold around you. But it is definitely a work in progress.
But the desire for control is, at least to some degree, innate.
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, think about what our lives would be like if we didn't fall prey to what psychologists call the illusion of control. So the illusion of control is basically saying that we grossly overestimate how much we dictate what happens in our life.
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