The Gray Area with Sean Illing

How we got to January 6th

17 Oct 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with war reporter and New Yorker contributing writer Luke Mogelson about his new book The Storm Is Here. In it, Luke shares his on-t...

Neil deGrasse Tyson gets political

13 Oct 2022

Contributed by Lukas

On this first episode of The Gray Area, Sean Illing talks with astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, who takes on many of our most vexing societal probl...

Introducing The Gray Area

11 Oct 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Resist certainty, embrace ambiguity. The Gray Area is a philosophical take on culture, politics, and everything in between with host Sean Illing. We d...

Best of: Why America's obsession with rights is wrong

06 Oct 2022

Contributed by Lukas

In this episode originally recorded in July 2021, Vox's Zack Beauchamp talks with Columbia law professor Jamal Greene about his book How Rights Went W...

A GOP insider on why the party went Trump

03 Oct 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with former Republican strategist Tim Miller about his new book Why We Did It, which offers an inside look at Donald Trump's total c...

How do we fix the harm we cause?

29 Sep 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox’s Marin Cogan talks with Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg about her new book On Repentance And Repair, which is about how to make amends in the modern wor...

A new philosophy of love

26 Sep 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with Carrie Jenkins about her new book Sad Love, and her call to rethink the shape and boundaries of romantic love. In this far-rang...

The politics of 'Yellowstone'

23 Sep 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Into It is a new podcast from Vulture and New York Magazine hosted by Sam Sanders. Each week, Sam and his Vulture colleagues break down the pop cultur...

How society sexualizes us

22 Sep 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox’s Emily St. James talks with the celebrated author and trans activist Julia Serano about her new book, Sexed Up. They talk about what "sexualiza...

The Parent Trap

19 Sep 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with Nate Hilger, economist, data scientist, and author of the new book The Parent Trap: How to Stop Overloading Parents and Fix Our...

40 Acres: Reaching reconciliation

15 Sep 2022

Contributed by Lukas

What good are piecemeal reparations? From Georgetown University, where school leadership once sold enslaved people, to Evanston, Illinois, where redli...

40 Acres: The old Jim Crow

12 Sep 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Why slavery? Marxist scholar Adolph Reed argues that Jim Crow — not enslavement — is the defining experience for Black Americans today. Reed recou...

40 Acres: $14 trillion and no mules

08 Sep 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Paying the price. One of the typical questions asked during conversations about reparations is how to pay for them. Fabiola talks with economist Willi...

40 Acres: The original promise

01 Sep 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Fabiola Cineas talks with Nkechi Taifa, the founder and director of the Reparation Education Project, about the history of the fight for reparations i...

What Clarence Thomas really thinks

29 Aug 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with Corey Robin, author of a recent article — as well as a 2019 book — about the life and thought of Supreme Court Justice Clar...

Even Better: Don't call it a budget

25 Aug 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Every Thursday in August, you'll hear Even Better on Vox Conversations, a special series focused on helping people live better lives individually and ...

The quest for authenticity

22 Aug 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with Skye Cleary, philosopher and author of the new book How to Be Authentic. The book is an examination of how to live an authentic...

Even Better: Setting your boundaries

18 Aug 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Every Thursday in August, you'll hear Even Better on Vox Conversations, a special series focused on helping people live better lives individually and ...

Your gut instinct is usually wrong

15 Aug 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with former Google data scientist Seth Stephens-Davidowitz, author of Don't Trust Your Gut. Seth argues that the way we make decisio...

Even Better: Workplace equality 2.0

11 Aug 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Every Thursday in August, you'll hear Even Better on Vox Conversations, a special series focused on helping people live better lives individually and ...

Why we're still postmodern (whatever that means)

08 Aug 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with Stuart Jeffries, journalist and author of Everything, All the Time, Everywhere, about why postmodernism is so hard to define, a...

Even Better: Activism when you don't know where to start

04 Aug 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Every Thursday in August, you'll hear Even Better on Vox Conversations, a special series focused on helping people live better lives individually and ...

The Supreme Court's power grab

01 Aug 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with Harvard Law professor Nikolas Bowie about the U.S. Supreme Court's recently-concluded term, which produced landmark opinions re...

How middlemen took over the economy

28 Jul 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Emily Stewart talks with Kathryn Judge, professor at Columbia Law School and author of the new book Direct: The Rise of Middleman Economy and th...

The necessity — and danger — of free speech

25 Jul 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with Washington Post media columnist Margaret Sullivan about his new book The Paradox of Democracy, which he co-authored with media ...

Hacking coral sex to save the reefs

21 Jul 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Benji Jones talks with marine biologist Hanna Koch about her team's efforts to repopulate the planet's coral reefs through cutting-edge scientif...

The price of keeping secrets

18 Jul 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with professor Michael Slepian, author of The Secret Life of Secrets. This new book explores secret-keeping behavior and its consequ...

Does China control Hollywood?

14 Jul 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Alissa Wilkinson talks with Wall Street Journal reporter Erich Schwartzel about Red Carpet, his new book detailing the myriad ways that Hollywoo...

Steve Bannon is still at war

11 Jul 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with Jennifer Senior, the Pulitzer-winning staff writer at the Atlantic, about her recent piece on Steve Bannon called "American Ras...

The Fortress of Solitude saw it all coming

30 Jun 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Constance Grady talks with writer Jonathan Lethem about his 2003 work The Fortress of Solitude in this recording from a live Vox Book Club event...

The Philosophers: Stoic revival

27 Jun 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with author Ryan Holiday about Stoicism — a philosophy with roots in ancient Greece and which flourished in early imperial Rome —...

Station Eleven's creator on the end of the world

23 Jun 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox’s Alex Abad-Santos sits down with Patrick Somerville, the creator and showrunner of HBO's critically-acclaimed series Station Eleven, adapted fr...

The racist origins of fat phobia

16 Jun 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox’s Anna North talks with Da'Shaun Harrison, the activist, author, and 2022 Lambda Literary Award recipient for their book Belly of the Beast: The...

The fight for Ukraine — and democracy

13 Jun 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with historian and author Timothy Snyder about the war in Ukraine, the stakes for Europe and the rest of the world, and the battle b...

The war on trans people

09 Jun 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox’s Emily St. James talks with Chase Strangio of the ACLU about the assault on the rights of trans Americans taking place in many states across th...

Michael Ian Black on being a better man

06 Jun 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with comedian and author Michael Ian Black about his book A Better Man, in which Black writes a letter to his son about masculinity,...

Carmen Maria Machado's haunted feminine

02 Jun 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Constance Grady talks with writer Carmen Maria Machado, whose 2017 short story collection Her Body and Other Parties was a National Book Award f...

The rise and fall of America's monuments

26 May 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Jamil Smith talks with Erin Thompson, professor of art crime and author of Smashing Statues: The Rise and Fall of America's Public Monuments. They dis...

The Philosophers: America's philosophy, with Cornel West

23 May 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with Cornel West about the American philosophical tradition known as pragmatism. They talk about what makes pragmatism so distinctly...

Why accidents aren't accidental

19 May 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox’s Marin Cogan talks with author and journalist Jessie Singer, whose book There Are No Accidents asks us to completely rethink our understanding ...

Rethinking the "end of history"

16 May 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with political scientist and author Francis Fukuyama, whose ideas about the "end of history" and the ideological supremacy of libera...

Anita Hill finally gets even

12 May 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Fabiola Cineas talks with Anita Hill, whose testimony during the 1991 confirmation hearings for now-Justice Clarence Thomas highlighted the prom...

Elites have captured identity politics

09 May 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with Olúfẹ́mi Táíwò, whose new book Elite Capture is about how the wealthy and powerful co-opt political movements, and use t...

The moral dangers of dirty work

05 May 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox’s Jamil Smith talks with journalist and author Eyal Press about "dirty work" — the jobs Americans do that, as Press explains, can lead workers...

Did the sexual revolution go wrong?

02 May 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with author and Washington Post columnist Christine Emba about whether or not we need to rethink sex. They discuss why, according to...

Who decides how to conserve nature?

28 Apr 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Benji Jones talks with Indigenous leader Kimaren ole Riamit about the role of Indigenous peoples in the conservation movement. Bringing the pers...

The Philosophers: Loneliness and totalitarianism

25 Apr 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with professor Lyndsey Stonebridge about the philosopher Hannah Arendt, author of The Origins of Totalitarianism. Arendt might be be...

The War in Ukraine, Explained — Part 4: The future of Europe

21 Apr 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is one of the biggest and most confusing political events of our lifetimes. We aim to bring some clarity in this special ...

Michael Lewis on why Americans distrust experts

18 Apr 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with writer Michael Lewis about why it is that Americans are so good at producing knowledge, but so bad at identifying and utilizing...

The War in Ukraine, Explained — Part 3: The nuclear threat

14 Apr 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is one of the biggest and most confusing political events of our lifetimes. We aim to bring some clarity in this special ...

The case for regret

11 Apr 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with writer Daniel Pink about his book The Power of Regret. They discuss why regret can be not only useful, but potentially the most...

The War in Ukraine, Explained — Part 2: Sanctions

07 Apr 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is one of the biggest and most confusing political events of our lifetimes. We aim to bring some clarity in this special ...

The spirituality of parenting

04 Apr 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with the author and self-described mystic David Spangler about parenting as a spiritual enterprise, where the parent communes in a r...

The War in Ukraine, Explained — Part 1: Why did Putin go to war?

31 Mar 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is one of the biggest and most confusing political events of our lifetimes. We aim to bring some clarity in this special ...

The Philosophers: Resisting despair

28 Mar 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with author and professor Robert Zaretsky about the French philosopher, novelist, and journalist Albert Camus (1913–1960). Though ...

What happened to American conservatism?

24 Mar 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox’s Jamil Smith talks with Charlie Sykes — journalist, author, stalwart "never Trumper," and a founder and editor-at-large of The Bulwark. They ...

The limits of forgiveness

21 Mar 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with philosopher Lucy Allais about the nature, power, and limits of forgiveness. They talk about the role of forgiveness in the diss...

The madness behind The Method

17 Mar 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Alissa Wilkinson talks with cultural critic and author Isaac Butler about his new book, The Method. They discuss the transformation that the cra...

David Cross is disappointed in you guys

14 Mar 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with comedian David Cross, well-known for his decades-long stand-up career, as well as for his role on the cult hit TV show Arrested...

Author Kiley Reid on why we read novels

10 Mar 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Constance Grady talks with Kiley Reid, author of the critically-acclaimed novel Such a Fun Age. In this episode, which is a recording of a live ...

The conversation about guns we're not having

07 Mar 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with firearms journalist Stephen Gutowski, founder of TheReload.com. They discuss the major barriers, principles, and blind spots on...

Why does middle school suck?

03 Mar 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Hillary Frank, the creator of the podcasts The Longest Shortest Time and Here Lies Me, talks with journalist and author Judith Warner about middle sch...

Russia's war with Ukraine — and reality

28 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with journalist, author, and Russian disinformation scholar Peter Pomerantsev about the invasion of Ukraine. Recorded on Friday, Feb...

Robert Glasper on why Black Radio is back

24 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox’s Jamil Smith talks with musician Robert Glasper, four-time Grammy-winner, about the release of his new album Black Radio III. They discuss Glas...

Could we lose delicious foods forever?

17 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Benji Jones talks with food journalist and author Dan Saladino, whose new book Eating to Extinction documents rare foods and food cultures from ...

What Don't Look Up is really about

14 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with David Sirota, the journalist turned Oscar-nominated co-writer (with director Adam McKay) of the film Don't Look Up. They talk a...

Democracy in crisis, part 2: The two-party problem

10 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Just how worried should we be about the future of American democracy? This is the question at the center of a two-part series from Vox Conversations a...

Why we can't pay attention anymore

07 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with the author Johann Hari about his new book Stolen Focus, which explores what's happening — and what's already happened — to ...

Democracy in crisis, part 1: Ross Douthat isn't too worried

03 Feb 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Just how worried should we be about the future of American democracy? This is the question at the center of a two-part series from Vox Conversations a...

Pod Save the Democrats

31 Jan 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with Dan Pfeiffer, former senior advisor to President Obama and co-host of the Pod Save America podcast, about what is wrong with th...

A Yellowjackets creator spills his guts

27 Jan 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Constance Grady talks with Bart Nickerson, the co-creator of new TV show Yellowjackets, which airs on Showtime. Yellowjackets follows a girls' s...

A scientist's case for "woo-woo"

24 Jan 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with David Hamilton, a scientist and former research chemist turned author, about his new book Why Woo-Woo Works, in which he offers...

Imagine a future with no police

20 Jan 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Fabiola Cineas talks with author, lawyer, and organizer Derecka Purnell about her recent book Becoming Abolitionists. They discuss Derecka's jou...

Novelist Lauren Groff on the other Matrix

13 Jan 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Constance Grady talks with novelist Lauren Groff about her latest book, the National Book Award finalist Matrix, before a virtual audience for t...

Are we living in a simulation?

10 Jan 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with philosopher David Chalmers about virtual worlds and the nature of reality, and other topics that stem from Chalmers's new book ...

Rep. Jamie Raskin on living through the unthinkable, twice

06 Jan 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Dylan Matthews talks with Congressman Jamie Raskin about the tragic loss of his son Tommy, who was twenty-five years old when he died at the end...

Best of: Why fascism in America isn't going away

03 Jan 2022

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Sean Illing talks to Yale professor and author Jason Stanley about why American democracy provides such fertile soil for fascism, how Donald Tru...

Best of: Clint Smith III on confronting the legacy of slavery

30 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Jamil Smith talks with author Clint Smith III about his book How the Word Is Passed, which documents the writer's personal journey visiting site...

Best of: We need to talk about UFOs. Seriously.

27 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Sean Illing talks with international politics professor and amateur ufologist Alex Wendt about why it's time to start thinking more seriously ab...

Chris Bosh on winning (and losing everything)

23 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Vox’s Jamil Smith talks with NBA legend Chris Bosh about his basketball career, his youth, and his legacy. They discuss Bosh’s transition to the N...

The cult of toughness

20 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with political commentator and author David French about modern conservatism and masculinity. They discuss the divergence between th...

Is ethical investing a scam?

16 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Emily Stewart talks with Tariq Fancy about whether or not "socially responsible investment" is a scam. Fancy is a former executive who led susta...

The good life is painful

13 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with psychologist Paul Bloom about his new book The Sweet Spot, and whether it's necessary to experience suffering in order to live ...

The father of environmental justice

09 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Jamil Smith talks with Dr, Robert Bullard, a pioneer in the crusade for environmental justice, about his more than four decades in the fight. Th...

Jill Lepore on Elon Musk's imaginary world

06 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with historian Jill Lepore about her new podcast: The Evening Rocket explores Elon Musk and the new form of extravagant, extreme cap...

E.O. Wilson's plan to save the world

02 Dec 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Benji Jones talks with the celebrated entomologist, biologist, and naturalist E.O. Wilson. They talk about Wilson's sixty-plus years as a leadin...

Workers of the world, stay home!

29 Nov 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with Anne Helen Petersen and her partner Charlie Warzel about their new book, Out of Office: The Big Problem and Bigger Promise of W...

How progressives get back in the game

22 Nov 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with Briahna Joy Gray, the former national press secretary for the Bernie Sanders 2020 Presidential campaign, and current host of th...

The highs and lows of the "creator economy"

18 Nov 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Rebecca Jennings talks with Taylor Lorenz, tech culture reporter for the New York Times, about the creator economy: what it is, who's in it, and...

Why Chris Hayes thinks we're all famous now

15 Nov 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with Chris Hayes, author, commentator, and host of All In With Chris Hayes on MSNBC. They discuss his recent essay in the New Yorker...

The stories soul food tells

11 Nov 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Jamil Smith talks with Caroline Randall Williams, academic, poet, and co-author (with her mother, Alice Randall) of Soul Food Love. They discuss...

The paradox of American freedom

08 Nov 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with Sebastian Junger, journalist, filmmaker, and author of the recent book Freedom. Informed by his experience hiking (and trespass...

Nonbinary parenthood

04 Nov 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Anna North talks with Krys Malcolm Belc, nonbinary transmasculine parent, essayist, and author of the memoir The Natural Mother of the Child. They tal...

John McWhorter, the anti-antiracist

01 Nov 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with John McWhorter, linguist, New York Times columnist, and author of Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America. T...

The overwhelming, invisible work of elder care

28 Oct 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Vox culture contributor Anne Helen Petersen talks with Liz O'Donnell, an advocate for working caregivers and the author of Working Daughter: A Guide t...

How Big Tech benefits from the disinformation panic

25 Oct 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with Joe Bernstein of BuzzFeed News about online disinformation and what — if anything — can be done about it. They discuss the ...

Fannie Lou Hamer and the meaning of freedom

21 Oct 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Jamil Smith talks with Keisha Blain, associate professor of history at the University of Pittsburgh and author of Until I Am Free: Fannie Lou Ha...

What the internet took from us

18 Oct 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Sean Illing talks with writer and New York Times Book Review editor Pamela Paul about her book 100 Things We've Lost to the Internet and the ways, big...

Trapped inside with Susanna Clarke's Piranesi

14 Oct 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Constance Grady talks with novelist Susanna Clarke about her latest book, Piranesi, before a virtual audience for the Vox Book Club. They discus...

Bryan Stevenson on the legacy of enslavement

07 Oct 2021

Contributed by Lukas

Vox's Jamil Smith talks with attorney, author, and activist Bryan Stevenson about the newly expanded Legacy Museum in Montgomery, Alabama. They discus...