The Gray Area with Sean Illing
Episodes
E.O. Wilson's plan to save the world
02 Dec 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Benji Jones talks with the celebrated entomologist, biologist, and naturalist E.O. Wilson. They talk about Wilson's sixty-plus years as a leadin...
Workers of the world, stay home!
29 Nov 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Sean Illing talks with Anne Helen Petersen and her partner Charlie Warzel about their new book, Out of Office: The Big Problem and Bigger Promise of W...
How progressives get back in the game
22 Nov 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Sean Illing talks with Briahna Joy Gray, the former national press secretary for the Bernie Sanders 2020 Presidential campaign, and current host of th...
The highs and lows of the "creator economy"
18 Nov 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Rebecca Jennings talks with Taylor Lorenz, tech culture reporter for the New York Times, about the creator economy: what it is, who's in it, and...
Why Chris Hayes thinks we're all famous now
15 Nov 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Sean Illing talks with Chris Hayes, author, commentator, and host of All In With Chris Hayes on MSNBC. They discuss his recent essay in the New Yorker...
The stories soul food tells
11 Nov 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Jamil Smith talks with Caroline Randall Williams, academic, poet, and co-author (with her mother, Alice Randall) of Soul Food Love. They discuss...
The paradox of American freedom
08 Nov 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Sean Illing talks with Sebastian Junger, journalist, filmmaker, and author of the recent book Freedom. Informed by his experience hiking (and trespass...
Nonbinary parenthood
04 Nov 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Anna North talks with Krys Malcolm Belc, nonbinary transmasculine parent, essayist, and author of the memoir The Natural Mother of the Child. They tal...
John McWhorter, the anti-antiracist
01 Nov 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Sean Illing talks with John McWhorter, linguist, New York Times columnist, and author of Woke Racism: How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America. T...
The overwhelming, invisible work of elder care
28 Oct 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox culture contributor Anne Helen Petersen talks with Liz O'Donnell, an advocate for working caregivers and the author of Working Daughter: A Guide t...
How Big Tech benefits from the disinformation panic
25 Oct 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Sean Illing talks with Joe Bernstein of BuzzFeed News about online disinformation and what — if anything — can be done about it. They discuss the ...
Fannie Lou Hamer and the meaning of freedom
21 Oct 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Jamil Smith talks with Keisha Blain, associate professor of history at the University of Pittsburgh and author of Until I Am Free: Fannie Lou Ha...
What the internet took from us
18 Oct 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Sean Illing talks with writer and New York Times Book Review editor Pamela Paul about her book 100 Things We've Lost to the Internet and the ways, big...
Trapped inside with Susanna Clarke's Piranesi
14 Oct 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Constance Grady talks with novelist Susanna Clarke about her latest book, Piranesi, before a virtual audience for the Vox Book Club. They discus...
Bryan Stevenson on the legacy of enslavement
07 Oct 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Jamil Smith talks with attorney, author, and activist Bryan Stevenson about the newly expanded Legacy Museum in Montgomery, Alabama. They discus...
What's your status?
04 Oct 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Sean Illing talks with writer Will Storr about his new book The Status Game, and its central idea: all human beings are constantly competing for statu...
Is there a hack for enlightenment?
30 Sep 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Sigal Samuel talks with scholars and authors Wesley Wildman and Kate Stockly about their book, Spirit Tech: The Brave New World of Consciousness...
Fighting a world on fire with fire
27 Sep 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Sean Illing talks with climate scholar Andreas Malm about his book How to Blow Up A Pipeline. They discuss the failure of decades of protests and appe...
Revolutionary Love
23 Sep 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Jamil Smith talks with author, activist, and filmmaker Valarie Kaur about her memoir See No Stranger and the Revolutionary Love Project. They di...
How to make meaning out of suffering
20 Sep 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox’s Sean Illing talks with David Wolpe, senior rabbi of the Sinai Temple in Los Angeles, about the role and nature of God, how religion and spirit...
Ken Burns's latest on The Greatest
16 Sep 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Jamil Smith talks with acclaimed documentary filmmakers Ken and Sarah Burns. The father-daughter team discuss their latest documentary about The...
The road from 9/11 to Donald Trump
13 Sep 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Sean Illing talks with national security reporter Spencer Ackerman, author of the new book Reign of Terror. They discuss the staggering changes to our...
Rep. Pramila Jayapal on immigrants and America after 9/11
09 Sep 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Aarti Shahani, host of the WBEZ Chicago podcast Art of Power and author of the memoir Here We Are, talks with Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-WA) about how 9/...
Why America's obsession with rights is wrong
02 Sep 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Zack Beauchamp talks with Columbia law professor Jamal Greene about his book How Rights Went Wrong: Why Our Obsession With Rights Is Tearing Ame...
The news is by — and for — rich, white liberals
30 Aug 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox’s Sean Illing talks with professor and media researcher Nikki Usher about her new book News for the Rich, White, and Blue, which documents syst...
Clint Smith III on confronting the legacy of slavery
26 Aug 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Jamil Smith talks with author Clint Smith III about his book How the Word Is Passed, which documents the writer's personal journey visiting site...
Was the cruelty the point?
23 Aug 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Sean Illing talks with Adam Serwer, whose new book The Cruelty Is the Point documents the role of cruelty in American politics, the way it was w...
How seashells shaped the world — and predict our future
19 Aug 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Benji Jones talks with author and environmental journalist Cynthia Barnett about seashells and her new book, The Sound of the Sea. They discuss ...
Bill Maher on free speech, comedy, and his haters
16 Aug 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Sean Illing talks with comedian Bill Maher about the risks and challenges of political comedy today, free speech, and whether ideology undermine...
Robert Reich wants you to take on the system
12 Aug 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Jamil Smith talks with former labor secretary, author, and social media gadfly Robert Reich about how our elected officials have fallen victim t...
Marty Baron on the future of news
09 Aug 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Sean Illing talks with former Washington Post executive editor Marty Baron about the state of journalism. They discuss Baron's post-retirement r...
The death of cool
05 Aug 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox culture contributor Anne Helen Petersen talks with writer Safy-Hallan Farah about the concept of 'cool.' They discuss different generations' appro...
We need to talk about UFOs. Seriously.
02 Aug 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Sean Illing talks with international politics professor and amateur ufologist Alex Wendt about why it's time to start thinking more seriously ab...
Philadelphia's progressive prosecutor
29 Jul 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Jamil Smith talks with Larry Krasner, the former civil rights attorney who's been district attorney of Philadelphia since 2018. They talk about ...
Fareed Zakaria on the fate of democracy
26 Jul 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Sean Illing talks with CNN's Fareed Zakaria about the global trend in democratic decline, and whether we should worry about America. They discus...
Jane Goodall on the power of hope
22 Jul 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Sigal Samuel talks with world-renowned primatologist Jane Goodall about what six decades of studying chimpanzees has taught her about humans. Th...
Why we love drugs
19 Jul 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Sean Illing talks with author Michael Pollan about his new book This Is Your Mind on Plants, why some societies condemn drugs that other societi...
The rugged majesty of revision
15 Jul 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Jamil Smith speaks with novelist and author Kiese Laymon in a far-ranging conversation about Laymon's reacquiring the rights to his own books, t...
How to forgive
12 Jul 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Sean Illing talks with Elizabeth Bruenig about how hard it is to forgive, how to balance our desire for justice with our humanity, and about how...
What makes a great conversation?
08 Jul 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Here's a look ahead at what's to come for Vox Conversations. Vox's Sean Illing welcomes colleague Jamil Smith to the podcast as an additional regular ...
Introducing: Now & Then
01 Jul 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Now & Then is a new podcast from CAFE hosted by award-winning historians Heather Cox Richardson and Joanne Freeman. Every Tuesday, Heather and Joanne ...
The science of dating
24 Jun 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Relationships journalist and podcast host Andrea Silenzi talks with Logan Ury, behavioral scientist-turned-dating coach, and author of How to Not Die ...
Honoring Juneteenth with Ibram X. Kendi
17 Jun 2021
Contributed by Lukas
In this special edition of Vox Conversations in honor of the Juneteenth holiday, Vox race reporter Fabiola Cineas spoke with author and podcast host I...
Digital dictatorship
10 Jun 2021
Contributed by Lukas
The internet was first conceived as a tool to promote free expression, to foster and enliven debate, and to strengthen democratic ideals. But it didn’...
The man who proposed reparations in the 1860s
03 Jun 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox’s Dylan Matthews talks with historian Bruce Levine about his book Thaddeus Stevens: Civil War Revolutionary and Fighter for Racial Justice. They...
What pandemic recovery should look like
27 May 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Emily Stewart talks with Janelle Jones, chief economist at the Labor Department, about what's actually going on with the US economy — and who ...
The gift of getting old
20 May 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox’s Sean Illing talks with Max Linsky, host of the new podcast 70 Over 70, which features intimate conversations with people over 70 years old. Th...
Freedom, and what it means to have a body
13 May 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Anna North talks with author Olivia Laing about her book Everybody: A Book About Freedom. Through the surprisingly connected lives of artists, a...
Why are we so worried about Satan?
06 May 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Sean Illing talks with Sarah Marshall, co-host of the You're Wrong About podcast, about the Satanic Panic of the early 1980s. They discuss Ameri...
How to be wrong less often
29 Apr 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Dylan Matthews talks with Julia Galef, host of the podcast Rationally Speaking, and author of The Scout Mindset: Why Some People See Things Clea...
The complicated history of wildlife conservation
22 Apr 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox environmental reporter Benji Jones talks with journalist and author Michelle Nijhuis about her book Beloved Beasts: Fighting for Life in an Age of...
How to replace everything in the industrialized world
15 Apr 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Climate writer and Vox contributor David Roberts talks with Jessika Trancik, Associate Professor at the Institute for Data, Systems, and Society at M....
Patricia Lockwood's big, beautiful internet brain
08 Apr 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Writer and Vox contributor Anne Helen Petersen talks with poet and novelist Patricia Lockwood about the experience of being extremely online. They dis...
Who is the real George Soros?
01 Apr 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Worldly host Zack Beauchamp talks with author and New Statesman editor Emily Tamkin about the life and legacy of George Soros. How did a Hungari...
Introducing Unexplainable
27 Mar 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Unexplainable is a new podcast from Vox about everything we don’t know. Each week, the team look at the most fascinating unanswered questions in sci...
The border, explained by someone who knows it intimately
25 Mar 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Aarti Shahani, NPR journalist and host of WBEZ podcast Art of Power, talks with investigative journalist and author Alfredo Corchado about the US-Mexi...
"Wintering," wisdom, and weathering life's darkest times
18 Mar 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Sigal Samuel talks with the author of Wintering, Katherine May, about the lessons we can learn during life's darkest seasons. They talk about ou...
Reframing America's race problem
11 Mar 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Sean Illing talks with the author of The Sum of Us, Heather McGhee, about the costs of racism in America — for everyone. They discuss what we ...
Who owns the Western?
04 Mar 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox book critic Constance Grady talks with Vox gender identities reporter and novelist Anna North about Anna's new book Outlawed. They discuss creatin...
A Watchmen writer on race, TV, and tech giants
25 Feb 2021
Contributed by Lukas
The Undefeated's culture critic Soraya Nadia McDonald talks with Emmy Award-winning television writer and producer Cord Jefferson. They discuss the tr...
Uncovering the history of psychedelics in Christianity
18 Feb 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Sean Illing talks about the the little-known history of psychedelics and spirituality in the Western world with Brian Muraresku, author of The I...
Biden's immigration architect on racism, reform, and the Obama legacy
11 Feb 2021
Contributed by Lukas
NPR journalist, memoirist, and host of the upcoming WBEZ podcast The Art of Power Aarti Shahani talks with Cecilia Muñoz, a former aide to Obama and ...
The Capitol Siege and American Revolution
04 Feb 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Dylan Matthews talks with author and Revolutions podcaster Mike Duncan about what history can tell us about the insurrection at the US Capitol. ...
Why fascism in Post-Trump America isn't going away
28 Jan 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox's Sean Illing talks to Yale professor and author Jason Stanley about why American democracy provides such fertile soil for fascism, how Donald Tru...
The Joe Biden experience
25 Jan 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Ezra Klein is joined by Evan Osnos, a staff writer at the New Yorker and the author of Joe Biden: The Life, the Run, and What Matters Now to discuss o...
What it means to be a "good" rich person
21 Jan 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Vox columnist Anne Helen Petersen talks with sociologist Rachel Sherman about her research into the anxieties of wealthy people and their desire to be...
Peter Kafka and Kevin Roose on big tech's power and responsibility
18 Jan 2021
Contributed by Lukas
Recode’s Peter Kafka speaks with New York Times’s Tech columnist Kevin Roose about big tech’s power and responsibility - and whether it is going...
Sam Sanders and Olivia Nuzzi on President Trump’s last days
14 Jan 2021
Contributed by Lukas
New York magazine's Washington correspondent Olivia Nuzzi spent the past four years covering the Trump White House. In this inaugural episode of Vox C...
Best of: We don’t just feel emotions. We make them.
07 Jan 2021
Contributed by Lukas
How do you feel right now? Excited to listen to your favorite podcast? Anxious about the state of American politics? Annoyed by my use of rhetorical q...
Best of: Ending the age of animal cruelty, with Bruce Friedrich
04 Jan 2021
Contributed by Lukas
You often hear that eating animals is natural. And it is. But not the way we do it. The industrial animal agriculture system is a technological marvel...
Best of: The moral philosophy of The Good Place
31 Dec 2020
Contributed by Lukas
After creating and running Parks and Recreation and writing for The Office, Michael Schur decided he wanted to create a sitcom about one of the most f...
Best of: Michael Lewis reads my mind
28 Dec 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Michael Lewis needs little introduction. He’s the author of Liar’s Poker, Moneyball, The Big Short, The Blind Side, The Fifth Risk. He’s the hos...
Best of: Tracy K. Smith changed how I read poetry
24 Dec 2020
Contributed by Lukas
It’s the rare podcast conversation where, as it’s happening, I’m making notes to go back and listen again so I can fully absorb what I heard. Bu...
What I’ve learned, and what comes next.
21 Dec 2020
Contributed by Lukas
As strange as it is to write, this is my last podcast here at Vox. In January, I'll be starting at the New York Times as a columnist on the opinion ...
Best of: An inspiring conversation about democracy with Danielle Allen
17 Dec 2020
Contributed by Lukas
This conversation with Harvard political theorist Danielle Allen in fall 2019 is one of my all-time favorites. Allen directs Harvard’s Edmond J...
Michael Pollan on the psychedelic society
14 Dec 2020
Contributed by Lukas
On November 3, as the country fixated on the incoming presidential election results, voters in Oregon approved a seemingly innocuous ballot measure wi...
Best of: Robert Sapolsky on the toxic intersection of poverty and stress
10 Dec 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Robert Sapolsky is a Stanford neuroscientist and primatologist. He’s the author of a slew of important books on human biology and behavior, includin...
Joe Biden and "the new progressivism"
07 Dec 2020
Contributed by Lukas
It’s often said that Joe Biden has an instinct for finding the political center — that of his party, and that of the country. To understand how Bi...
Best of: Frances Lee on why bipartisanship is irrational
03 Dec 2020
Contributed by Lukas
There are few conversations I’ve had on this show that are quite as relevant to our current political moment as this one with Princeton political sc...
The most important book I've read this year
30 Nov 2020
Contributed by Lukas
If I could get policymakers, and citizens, everywhere to read just one book this year, it would be Kim Stanley Robinson’s The Ministry for the Futur...
Best of: Alison Gopnik changed how I think about love
26 Nov 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Happy Thanksgiving! We will be back next week with brand new episodes, but on a day when so many of us are thinking about love and relationships I wan...
Best of: Vivek Murthy on America’s loneliness epidemic
23 Nov 2020
Contributed by Lukas
At the holidays, I wanted to share some of my favorite episodes of the show with you (we’ll be back next week with brand new episodes). My conversat...
What Democrats got wrong about Hispanic voters
19 Nov 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Donald Trump has built his presidency on top of racial dog whistles, xenophobic rhetoric, and anti-immigrant policies. A core belief among liberals wa...
Antitrust, censorship, misinformation, and the 2020 election
16 Nov 2020
Contributed by Lukas
I’ve been fascinated by the sharp change in how the tech platforms — particularly the big social media companies like Facebook, Twitter, and to so...
The crisis isn’t Trump. It’s the Republican Party.
12 Nov 2020
Contributed by Lukas
If the past week — and past four years — have proven anything, it’s that we are not as different as we believed. No longer is the question, "Can...
The Joe Biden experience
07 Nov 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Joe Biden will be the 46th president of the United States. And — counting the votes of people, not just land — it won’t be close. If current tre...
Chris Hayes and I process this wild election
05 Nov 2020
Contributed by Lukas
This is not the post-election breakdown I expected to have today, but it's definitely the one that I needed. Chris Hayes is the host of the MSNBC prim...
Stacey Abrams on minority rule, voting rights, and the future of democracy
02 Nov 2020
Contributed by Lukas
We’re one day away from the election, though who-knows-how-many days from finding out who won it. But there’s more at stake than whether Donald Tr...
Nate Silver on why 2020 isn't 2016
29 Oct 2020
Contributed by Lukas
As you may have heard, there's a pretty important election coming up. That means it's time to bring back the one and only Nate Silver. Silver, the ...
Sarah Kliff grades Biden and Trump's health care plans
26 Oct 2020
Contributed by Lukas
There are few issues on which the stakes in this election are quite as stark as on health care. Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden plans to pas...
Trumpism never existed. It was always just Trump.
22 Oct 2020
Contributed by Lukas
In 2016, Julius Krein was one of Donald Trump’s most ardent supporters. In Trump’s critiques of the existing Republican and Democratic establishme...
What should Democrats do about the Supreme Court?
19 Oct 2020
Contributed by Lukas
If Democrats win back power this November, they will be faced with a choice: Leave the existing Supreme Court intact, and watch their legislative agen...
Marilynne Robinson on writing, metaphysics, and the Donald Trump dilemma
15 Oct 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Marilynne Robinson is one of the greatest American novelists alive today. She’s the author of the Pulitzer-prize winning Gilead — one of my favori...
The case for Trump’s foreign policy
12 Oct 2020
Contributed by Lukas
As we approach the 2020 election, I want to make sure the conversation on this show reflects the actual choice the country is facing. So we are going ...
Fareed Zakaria on how Biden and Trump see the world
08 Oct 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Fareed Zakaria is the host of CNN’s Fareed Zakaria GPS, a columnist for the Washington Post, and one of the most astute foreign policy thinkers of o...
How a climate bill becomes a reality
05 Oct 2020
Contributed by Lukas
Helluva week in politics, huh? And yet, in the background, the world is still warming, the fires still burning, the future still dimming. There will b...
The meat we eat affects us all
02 Oct 2020
Contributed by Lukas
In this special episode of the Future Perfect podcast, neuroscientist Lori Marino helps us understand how arbitrarily we draw the lines between animal...
A dark, dangerous debate
30 Sep 2020
Contributed by Lukas
In a special, post-debate episode, I'm joined by Matt Yglesias to discuss the most unnerving presidential debate I've ever seen. Hosts: Matthew Ygles...
A radical — or obvious? — plan to save American democracy
28 Sep 2020
Contributed by Lukas
We talk a lot on this show about the problems with American political institutions. But what if all those problems are actually just one problem: the ...
RBG, minority rule, and our looming legitimacy crisis
24 Sep 2020
Contributed by Lukas
The death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, just weeks before a presidential election, leaves us in dangerous waters. It’s easy to imagine a scenario in which...