🎙️ Simon Berkler, Co-Founder of The Dive🎧 About this episode This episode of The In-Between Tech & Trust Podcast asks a question every leader is quietly facing: what does AI actually do to the trust inside your organization — and what does your trust culture do to AI? Simon Berkler, organizational development expert and co-founder of The Dive, argues that technology doesn't change organizations. It reveals them. The conversation is for leaders, HR professionals, and anyone navigating organizational transformation in the age of AI.🧭 Episode overview Eva Simone Lihotzky speaks with Simon Berkler about why trust is not a soft skill but the structural condition that makes organizations work — and why that matters more than ever in the context of AI adoption. Drawing on systems theory, regenerative organizational design, and 20+ years of hands-on OD practice, Simon reframes the tech-and-trust debate: the question is not which AI tools to adopt, but what kind of organization you already are. Because AI, he argues, will act as a mirror — amplifying what's already alive, for better or worse.They explore how to lead through in-between moments when old logic is crumbling and new logic hasn't formed yet, why collective intuition may be the most underused organizational resource, and what it would mean to design governance structures built for uncertainty rather than against it.🧩 Key themes discussedWhy trust reduces social complexity — and what that means practically for organizational transformationAI as a mirror of organizational culture: how existing trust levels determine whether AI becomes augmentation or surveillanceThe difference between trust and probability — and why AI runs on the latter, not the formerLeading through in-between spaces: how to change the rules while still playing the gameCollective intuition as a strategic resource for navigating complexity, drawing on the work of organizational psychologist Peter KruseThe Stellar Approach: a regenerative OD framework for moving organizations from conventional to net-positive ways of workingWhy rhythm is the most overlooked asset in transformationShifting organizational governance from optimizing for certainty to optimizing for uncertaintyWhat "safe enough to try" looks like as a leadership stance in AI adoption📚 References & further readingThe Dive — Simon's organizational development consultancy: thedive.comSimon Berkler's personal site & writing: simon-berkler.deThe Stellar Approach by Simon Berkler & Ella Lagé (2024): AmazonNiklas Luhmann, Trust and Power — systems theory foundation for the episode's framing of trust: AmazonNora Bateson & the concept of Warm Data — the distinction between warm and cold data Simon references: warmdata.lifePeter Kruse on collective intuition and complexity — the four ways of dealing with complexity Simon draws on: artsnext.ch summary

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