Menu
Sign In Search Podcasts Charts People & Topics Add Podcast API Blog Pricing
Podcast Image

The Jordan Harbinger Show

1277: Isabelle Boemeke | The Rad Future of Nuclear Electricity

29 Jan 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: Why is nuclear power still stigmatized despite its benefits?

3.592 - 15.109 Jordan Harbinger

Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you.

0

15.45 - 28.068 Jordan Harbinger

Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional rocket scientist, war correspondent, or arms dealer.

0

28.369 - 44.338 Jordan Harbinger

If you're new to the show or you're looking for a handy way to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs, These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology and geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults, and more that'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show.

0

44.738 - 63.929 Jordan Harbinger

Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today's guest has a wild resume. She's an international fashion model who became a nuclear power influencer. Yes, a fashion model and a nuclear expert. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, folks. She goes by Isodope online. That's pretty creative. I'll give you that.

0

64.17 - 79.532 Jordan Harbinger

While most of us were doom-scrolling climate anxiety memes, humans are the virus, fire skies in China, highways in Hollywood that look like Blade Runner. But is it Blade Runner 2049 or the old one? Anyway, she was asking the question, what if the thing we're all terrified of is actually the thing that saves us? Nuclear. Nuclear.

79.512 - 99.058 Jordan Harbinger

The word that makes everybody think Chernobyl, hazmat suits, glowing three-eyed fish. But what if everything we think we know about nuclear is wrong? In her book, Rad Future Nuclear, Isabel Boimka argues that nuclear electricity and energy might actually be the cleanest, safest, densest, most reliable shot we actually have at a sustainable planet.

99.078 - 118.751 Jordan Harbinger

And she does it with humor, sass, a little more scientific rigor than most of the people yelling at each other on the internet. So how does a model become a nuclear energy evangelist? Come for the fashion, stay for the fission. How does an international model become a nuclear power influencer? It's a weird career path. And I say that as somebody who also has a weird career path.

118.771 - 119.351 Jordan Harbinger

What happened there?

119.772 - 127.32 Isabelle Boemeke

Yes. Well, first you go on YouTube and you watch how to become a nuclear energy influencer starting off as a fashion model.

Chapter 2: What safety statistics challenge the fears surrounding nuclear energy?

154.015 - 177.007 Isabelle Boemeke

throughout my entire life is I try to be useful whatever that moment requires. And in the case of becoming a nuclear energy influencer, I was trying to be useful and help solve climate change in whatever capacity that I could. And so I guess you get creative when you feel the need to do something. you know, about a really big problem that you have no idea how to begin to solve.

0

177.887 - 196.527 Isabelle Boemeke

And I remember my desire to do something about climate really was inspired by seeing images of the Amazon on fire back in 2019. And this was the same year that there were huge Australia fires and also California fires. I think those are the original orange sky photos that went all around.

0

196.507 - 214.431 Jordan Harbinger

Yeah, those are scary. I remember when the fires were in LA and people were driving along, was it 101 or whatever it is, or the 405? They're driving along and the fire was just right up to the side of the highway because the grass was burning. And I remember my friend who's been on the show, Darren Brown, he's a mentalist. He told me he was...

0

214.411 - 232.607 Jordan Harbinger

driving to go do shows in LA and he's like, I've never, this is like what hell must be, right? You're just driving through a tunnel of fire. And I don't know why they didn't close the highway. I guess they just felt like they couldn't. It was absolutely insane. And the Getty was gonna burn and then they said, no, we have this crazy fireproof.

0

232.647 - 253.33 Jordan Harbinger

I mean, it was like, why are we thinking about how to fireproof art and buildings in extreme ways? I mean, yes, the stuff in there is priceless, so it's a good idea, but also like, man, maybe we should manage the problem itself I know your career started with climate change fears, but I think a lot of Gen Z, they have climate anxiety. Would you say you had that or is that overstated?

253.671 - 260.4 Isabelle Boemeke

I think it was definitely climate anxiety. And I think back then I couldn't have pointed at it and said, I have climate anxiety.

260.701 - 260.921 Unknown

Yeah.

261.342 - 268.271 Isabelle Boemeke

But even before then, I really thought I didn't want to have kids because why bring them into such a messed up world?

268.291 - 268.532 Unknown

Yeah.

Chapter 3: How does nuclear fuel compare to fossil fuels in terms of energy density?

337.216 - 355.36 Jordan Harbinger

And then next to that open space would be more jungle and then a little house. And then we saw fires, like tons of fires. And we're like, why aren't the people panicking? This is a huge fire. And then we realized they were just burning the jungle down to get the land. And then they were going to put their cows on there or farm on there or something like that.

0

355.941 - 375.401 Jordan Harbinger

And the fire was right up to the road. I mean, it was really intense and huge. And I'm thinking like, there's no way these don't get out of control here and there. So you have Hollywood highways, you got the bushfires in Peru. I've been to China, especially 15 years ago when it was really, really dirty and it looked like winter, even though it wasn't because of the smog clouds. It's gross.

0

375.421 - 381.747 Jordan Harbinger

You see the fires, you see the skies, you see the highways and you just realize like the humans are the virus. Remember that hashtag? Humans are the virus.

0

381.794 - 401.457 Isabelle Boemeke

Well, I disagree with that sentiment because I think it's also behind a lot of this feeling that we can't make the world better. I think a lot of this sentiment that humans are bad and we've destroyed the planet, it drives also a lot of apathy. It does, yeah. And quite frankly, it also drives bad policies that actually harm humans.

0

401.437 - 422.382 Isabelle Boemeke

But it's funny because people who don't believe in climate change, they'll say, oh, climate change started this fire whenever the news came out recently that the Palisades fire in L.A. were caused by an arsonist. They'll say, oh, I thought it was climate change. But, you know, nobody's saying that climate change is starting the fires. Obviously, the fires start because of, you know.

422.362 - 444.192 Isabelle Boemeke

Humans trying to clear up land either for logging or raising cows or just building something. Or, you know, of course, somebody smoking and throwing their cigarette away. So there's a variety of reasons why fires do start. But climate change is just making it, making the fires more extreme. It's drier. So, you know, obviously fire spreads faster and so on.

444.532 - 467.404 Isabelle Boemeke

But, you know, it's interesting because specifically the L.A. fires, because they're so recent, the ones in Palisades. It couldn't have been totally avoided, but it definitely could have been made better or less severe with a few practices that, you know, you mentioned, the Getty mentioned. Why isn't the city of LA preparing to face those fires as well? Since it seems to happen every single year.

467.424 - 481.969 Isabelle Boemeke

So there are things that can be done like brush management and controlled burns, even things like that that are not at least being implemented. But, you know, it's a huge tragedy and trying to point fingers is kind of useless.

482.33 - 487.561 Jordan Harbinger

Of course. Let's switch to nuclear here because I think we're not here to talk about fire policy in L.A.

Chapter 4: What lessons can be learned from Germany's nuclear phase-out?

488.764 - 508.723 Jordan Harbinger

People are super afraid of nuclear. They think it's bad and dangerous. Why is that the case? I mean, I remember growing up and not really having much of an opinion and then thinking like, oh, we shouldn't do that. I don't know why, but we just shouldn't because Chernobyl. Actually, maybe back up one little step. Is there a big nuclear like there is big oil and gas?

0

508.743 - 512.41 Jordan Harbinger

Because you never really hear about the uranium lobby. Does that exist?

0

512.39 - 534.415 Isabelle Boemeke

If it exists, it's very ineffective because I don't personally take money from the nuclear industry, but there are people who are happy to take money from the nuclear industry and they just won't give any away. So if there is big nuclear or big uranium, I'm not aware of it. But just to step back, why are people so afraid of nuclear?

0

534.495 - 540.562 Isabelle Boemeke

And it's interesting you mentioned you didn't really know much about it, but you just had this vibe that it was bad. Or dangerous.

0

540.582 - 555.947 Jordan Harbinger

Yeah. Or like it's not cool. Like, hey, anything can happen. I remember my mom telling me like Three Mile Island. I still don't even know what that is. But that apparently there was some nuclear thing there. And my parents were like Chernobyl. You know, that's what I remember learning about nuclear growing up because I grew up in the 80s.

556.079 - 572.101 Isabelle Boemeke

Yes, exactly. So I think even your generation, certainly my generation, we don't really know why, but we just have a bad feeling about it. And if you want to go all the way back to the beginning, you really have to go to whenever nuclear fission was discovered.

572.321 - 594.91 Isabelle Boemeke

And this is when a few scientists in the lab found out that by bombarding uranium with neutrons would create the atoms in the uranium to split. And that would release energy. And I'm just really simplifying the history here because it was a lot of people involved and steps and so on. But, you know, this discovery unfortunately took place in 1938 in Germany.

595.571 - 616.135 Isabelle Boemeke

So we were a year away from entering World War II. And of course, the fear automatically became that Hitler was trying to develop bombs using the underlying science. It was very clear already at that time that this technology could be used for making weapons. We're also for making electricity, right? I like to compare it to AI right now, where we are.

616.155 - 627.167 Isabelle Boemeke

It can be, you know, this incredible thing that cures cancer and gives all of this, creates all new jobs. But also it can destroy human civilization.

Chapter 5: How does nuclear energy infrastructure relate to coal power plants?

635.736 - 636.677 Jordan Harbinger

That's the fear anyway.

0

636.758 - 642.885 Isabelle Boemeke

Well, but with the difference being that at the time, this technology was certainly discovered in Germany.

0

643.046 - 644.587 Jordan Harbinger

Nazi Germany, to be clear.

0

644.607 - 664.892 Isabelle Boemeke

Nazi Germany, to be clear. Exactly. Nazi Germany, to be clear. And so Albert Einstein co-wrote a letter to President Roosevelt at the time, urging him to do something about that, to try to get ahead of Hitler. And so the United States started the Manhattan Project, which obviously culminated with the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

0

664.872 - 688.872 Isabelle Boemeke

And that was the introduction to the world of nuclear technologies. And you have to think about the fact that people automatically started equating nuclear or atomic with a mushroom cloud image, with photos of children crying, you know, running away from crumbling buildings. Imagine the emotional scar that that created in that entire generation that witnessed that.

688.885 - 706.422 Jordan Harbinger

Yeah, my parents talk about those drills where you stick your head under your desk and then it's like, yeah, you're going to get vaporized. But sure, make sure you don't have a book land on you before that happens or whatever. And it seems like if we'd had a slightly different introduction to this technology, we'd be in a totally different place because.

706.402 - 722.331 Jordan Harbinger

I would think right now if they were like, hey, we figured out how to split the atom. It's like, wow, every vehicle's gonna be electric. Skyscrapers in New York are gonna be running essentially green, right? Carbon, what's it called? Net zero, whatever. We're gonna have clean cities. We're gonna have clean air.

722.391 - 738.416 Jordan Harbinger

You're gonna be able to clean up all the garbage everywhere and clean up all the water that's dirty because we have unlimited electricity. man, it would have really turned out differently. We wouldn't energy politics. We would not have a lot of the dictatorships we have now, the Middle East crazies that are still largely living in the Stone Age.

738.476 - 754.498 Jordan Harbinger

Warm up those angry emails now, folks, would not have all the power and money that they have. And a lot of autocratic regimes sit on huge amounts of natural resources just kind of by design. And I've done shows about this. And so we that might also just never have really happened.

Chapter 6: What are the implications of nuclear waste management?

1142.635 - 1160.835 Isabelle Boemeke

It was a current day Ukraine. So it's just to say, you know, everything that's related to nuclear accidents in Chernobyl is completely overblown. Another crazy fact, one of the reactors obviously exploded. So nothing, you know, it was shut down. Another one was shut down maybe a decade after that reactor exploded.

0

1161.355 - 1174.153 Isabelle Boemeke

But the Chernobyl power plant, there were four reactors originally, and one of them kept making electricity until the year 2000. So there were workers coming in and that's a reactor that shared a wall with the reactor that exploded.

0

1174.413 - 1174.754 Unknown

Oh, wow.

0

1175.014 - 1184.251 Isabelle Boemeke

So people were coming in. The power plant was still producing electricity because people tend to think generally like everybody died and it became this wasteland and nobody can go in.

0

1184.631 - 1185.092 Jordan Harbinger

Right. Yeah.

1185.252 - 1186.735 Isabelle Boemeke

And it's just not true.

1186.715 - 1205.121 Jordan Harbinger

The exclusion zone, when I look at it on a map, that's why I thought it was in Belarus, because there's something called the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone, which I guess is part Ukraine, part Belarus, part, I don't know, what else? Maybe some Russia in there? I'm not sure exactly. But it's like a grayed-out area on the map with lines through it, depending on the map you're looking at.

1205.161 - 1224.408 Jordan Harbinger

And the borders kind of aren't really there because there's no people living in there. Or, I mean, no people supposed to be living in there. Mm-hmm. And there's cities that have like wolf packs in them and wildlife and all kinds of crazy stuff. My buddy went through a motorcycle trip through there. So you can go through it, but it's, you know, nobody's there.

1224.488 - 1240.69 Jordan Harbinger

But yeah, you think there's power plants there and it's in a post-apocalyptic disaster zone, but really it's an operate or was an operating power plant with working roads that you could drive through if you actually wanted to do that. And I think it includes part of Belarus, part of Ukraine. Yeah. How long is that out of commission?

Chapter 7: How does the international community view nuclear energy post-Fukushima?

1381.444 - 1396.021 Isabelle Boemeke

You get home, you turn on the lights, you charge your phone, charge your computer, do all the things that we do without thinking twice about electricity, right? But electricity is a secondary source of energy. And what that means is that we need to use a primary source of energy to create electricity.

0

1396.242 - 1418.399 Isabelle Boemeke

Because, yes, electricity exists in nature, but it's not like we're harnessing that electricity to power our stuff. And so the primary sources of energy that we use to create electricity are coal, oil, methane gas, solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, and nuclear is one of those. So those are all different ways that we can create electricity. There are more, but they're niche.

0

1418.419 - 1420.062 Isabelle Boemeke

I'm just going to focus on the biggest ones.

0
0

1420.703 - 1444.602 Isabelle Boemeke

And so nuclear is actually the largest source of clean energy in the United States. It's the second largest source of clean energy in the world. And what I mean by that is that whenever we make electricity with nuclear, we're not releasing greenhouse gases into the atmosphere or even particulate matter. So there are no emissions that happen whenever you're creating electricity with nuclear.

1444.582 - 1456.789 Isabelle Boemeke

But it's still, you know, even though it's the largest source of clean energy, it's still very far from being our primary source of electricity generation. This is still fossil fuels like methane gas or coal in the United States specifically.

1457.049 - 1460.076 Jordan Harbinger

If we burn methane, what comes out of that? Do you know?

1460.056 - 1474.027 Isabelle Boemeke

So methane, whenever we burn it, we don't actually get the same stuff. Coal is by far the worst, right? Yeah, sure. When you burn coal, you get a ton of shit into the atmosphere. Actually, you even get radioactive ash.

1474.388 - 1475.23 Jordan Harbinger

From burning coal.

Chapter 8: What future role could nuclear energy play in combating climate change?

1777.597 - 1792.277 Unknown

Level up your workout in the new year. Join FitBod today to get your personalized workout plan. Get 25% off your subscription or try the app free for seven days at FitBod.me slash Jordan. That's F-I-T-B-O-D dot M-E slash Jordan.

0

1792.392 - 1808.136 Jordan Harbinger

If you're wondering how I managed to book all these authors, thinkers, creators every single week, it's because of my network, the circle of people I know, like, and trust. And I'm teaching you how to build the same thing for yourself in our course without any shenanigans over at 6minutenetworking.com. I don't need your credit card number. This is a free thing from us to you.

0

1808.576 - 1824.121 Jordan Harbinger

In six minutes a day is all it takes. Dig that well before you get thirsty, folks. Build relationships before you need them. Many of the guests on the show subscribe and contribute to the course. Come on and join us. You'll be in smart company where you belong. Once again, all free at 6minutenetworking.com. Now, back to Isabel Blanca.

0

1826.145 - 1833.638 Jordan Harbinger

A lot of people are going to say, you said there's no emissions, but I, you know, I driven past a nuclear power plant before. What are those big smokestacks for if they don't have emissions?

0

1833.702 - 1852.362 Isabelle Boemeke

So those are not smokestacks. The smokestacks are different. They're like thinner stacks. And those are usually in coal plants and they're putting out shit into the environment. But the nuclear power plant, you're not actually seeing smokestacks. You're seeing cooling towers. And what's the thing that they're putting out is actually just water vapor.

1852.923 - 1873.847 Isabelle Boemeke

So nuclear power plants, nuclear reactors actually get very hot. That's how they make electricity. They use the energy trapped inside of atoms. to heat up water, which creates steam. And the steam then spins a turbine that is connected to a generator. And that's how it makes electricity. So nuclear reactors get very hot and they need to be cooled down.

1874.387 - 1894.756 Isabelle Boemeke

And one of the most popular ways in which they're cooled down is we get water from a large body of water nearby. It can be an ocean or a lake or a river. And you suck that water into a cooling system that goes around a secondary loop in the reactor. So it's not actually touching the reactor. That's where the radiation would be. But it's coming out.

1895.698 - 1902.869 Isabelle Boemeke

Usually in most nuclear power plants, it also just comes right back out into the lake, river, ocean, just hotter than what it was in the beginning.

1903.169 - 1906.915 Jordan Harbinger

Okay. So it's not actually becoming radioactive by going through the power plant.

Comments

There are no comments yet.

Please log in to write the first comment.