1385: Food Deserts | Skeptical Sunday
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What is a food desert and how did the concept originate?
This episode is brought to you by Xero. That's Xero with an X. Running a small business and managing your finances shouldn't make your day more complicated. Learn more at Xero.com. Welcome to Skeptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Skeptical Sunday co-host, writer, and researcher, Jessica Wynn. On the Jordan Harbinger Show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. And our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers.
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Today on Skeptical Sunday, we're talking about food deserts. If a neighborhood doesn't have a grocery store, it seems intuitive that people are probably going to eat worse, right? So you build a grocery store. Problem solved. That idea has shaped public health policy for decades. It's inspired billions of dollars in spending, thousands of new supermarkets, and an entire movement built around solving something called food deserts. There's just one problem. It's not working. Joining me today to ruin another thing that I thought I already understood is writer and researcher Jessica Wynn. Jess, start at the beginning. What exactly is a food desert, and how did everyone become so convinced that just building more grocery stores was the answer?
Well, the term food desert was coined in the early 1990s in the United Kingdom. Researchers studying low-income neighborhoods noticed residents often lacked convenient access to affordable, healthy food, so there weren't many supermarkets nearby. Instead, there were mostly convenience stores and takeaways. That's British for fast food.
Right. Yes. Takeaway. Yeah. Well, I guess, is it just fast food or is it also any time you actually take food out of a restaurant, like delivery?
I think it's bodega type food,
too,
that they call takeaway. Sorry if I'm getting that wrong, everybody.
Yeah. We'll hear about it from a thousand people if you get it wrong. Don't worry.
In language we don't understand.
That's right.
But the thinking was simple. If healthy food is far away and unhealthy food is close by, people are going to eat worse.
Which makes perfect sense because if healthy food isn't available or it's harder to get than junk food, of course people are going to eat worse. I mean, the only reason I know this so well is because I was once a teenager. And it's not that I couldn't eat healthy food. It's just that when I opened the freezer, there wasn't any in there, but there was a pizza. So that was what got consumed. I mean, this is kind of common sense, right?
That's exactly why I bought this whole build a grocery store logic, too. I completely believed the food desert narrative when I started researching this. I wasn't looking to debunk anything. The evidence, though, it took me somewhere I did not expect.
So somebody who changed their mind because of evidence and not because somebody paid them or showed them a TikTok video. Where am I? But if you don't have access to healthy food, you can't eat healthy foods. What am I missing? I mean, the logic seems incredibly simple here.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is a food desert and how did the concept originate?
0:00–7:08
2
Why does the USDA define food deserts by distance and income?
7:08–17:15
3
What does the research show about the impact of building new supermarkets?
17:15–30:13
4
How do food swamps differ from food deserts and why are they more harmful?
30:13–44:09
5
What role do dollar stores play in worsening food access problems?
44:09–57:43
6
Can online grocery delivery and SNAP reforms improve nutrition for low‑income households?
57:43–1:08:11
7
How do cultural preferences and community‑driven programs affect food choices?
1:08:11–1:15:16
8
What policy changes could truly address the underlying causes of poor diet quality?
1:15:16–1:17:29
Speakers
3 identifiedMore from The Jordan Harbinger Show
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