Mark Pryor’s sharply plotted Hugo Marston mysteries combine the gritty reality of underworld crime with gorgeous Paris settings that revel in French life old and new. Hi there, I’m your host Jenny Wheeler and today Mark talks about reader expectations, the importance of craft, and his recent addition to Hugo’s American embassy network, a transgender security agent. Six things you’ll learn from this Joys of Binge Reading episode: Why adding an alligator made for a more interesting story How Hugo Marston came to be The secret reason his mysteries are set in gorgeous cities Why he never worries about ‘writer’s block.’ The writers he admires most What he’d do differently second time around Where to find Mark Pryor: Website: http://www.markpryorbooks.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Mark-Pryor-Author-101633349962415/ Twitter: @MarkPryorBooks What follows is a “near as” transcript of our conversation, not word for word but pretty close to it, with links to important mentions. Jenny: Hello there Mark, and welcome to the show. It’s great to have you with us. Mark: Nice to be on. Thank you so much for having me. Mark Pryor – Mystery author Jenny: Beginning at the beginning as I always like to do – was there a “Once Upon A Time” moment when you decided you wanted to write fiction, and if so, was there some sort of catalyst for it? Mark: Yes actually. It was when I was in primary school in England. I remember that my teacher, Mrs Garwood, had two notebooks she had us write in. One was for things that actually happened to us, news, and the other was for stories, fictional stories, things we just invented. And at the beginning of one term, after the summer holidays, she asked us to write in the ‘News’ book about some stuff we had done and so I did. I wrote about a haystack I’d played on on the family farm with my best friend and about how we’d been attacked by alligators and we’d had to fight them off with sticks, and I wrote all this in my ‘News’ book, not my fiction book. And you know what she said? She said absolutely nothing about it and she gave me a gold star, so I always think of that as a great moment of encouragement for me and I look back at that and I remember. That would be a kick-off point for me, I think. Jenny: Did you realise at that point that you were writing fiction in a news book? Did you actually know the difference? Mark: I think probably what happened was I started to write something true, because we did play on the haystack, but then realised that that was kind of boring and a couple of alligators would make this a lot more interesting. Jenny: That’s lovely. I can see that on your website sometime. A couple of alligators would make this more interesting! They could turn up in the Seine! So why did you choose the mystery genre? And why contemporary Paris as your setting? The magical Seine – but some weird things have turned up in its waters Mark: I think mysteries because those are the books that I always read. I grew up on Agatha Christie and Sherlock Holmes. Before that the Hardy Boys, the Three Investigators. I just was always drawn to reading mysteries and so it was a natural thing for me, when I decided to write, to write a mystery novel. As for why Paris, I do get asked that question and I usually answer it by saying I have a friend who sets his novels in a run-down town in rural New York and another friend who sets her books in East Texas and guess who has the most fun doing research! I have been to Paris probably knocking on twenty times and I try to go every single year to do research for the fresh book and I love the city, I love everything about it, and setting a novel there, or a series, makes perfect sense to me, because it means I have to go every year. Jenny: Yes, and I think there definitely is quite a big genre which is actually French mysteries now, or mysteries based in France but written in English. Mark: Yes, there are a few of us who are doing it now. Martin Walker, Cara Black, so a few of us have figured out the secret and the fun places to do their research. Jenny: Your hero, Hugo Marston, is head of security at the American embassy in Paris. How did Hugo come to life? The Bookseller – bodies keep turning up in the Seine Mark: The way I answer that question, usually in front of a group of people, is to ask them to put their hands up who knows what the Head of Security at the US Embassy does. And inevitably nobody does. And the simple truth is that when I invented Hugo, I didn’t know either. But what I needed was a character who could involve himself in crimes and get involved with the local Paris Police Department and get stuck in and help solve crimes. So I needed somebody who lived there permanently as well of course because I knew I wanted this to be a series. And after just a very small amount of poking around it struck me that to have him work at the Embassy would have him in Paris full-time and to have him do some sort of security, police job, would let him get involved with the cops. That’s what I started with. Once the first novel, “The Bookseller” came out I actually had the courage, because as you probably know authors don’t see themselves as authors until they have a book published, we’re all a bit insecure that way, but once the first book came out I actually wrote to the State Department and my email found its way to the Cultural Attaché I think he was at the time, at the Embassy in Paris, and he invited me to come and visit. And so a couple of weeks later my wife and I hopped on a plane, went over there and spent three or four hours in the Security Office. Unfortunately the head guy, the Hugo, wasn’t there but we talked to his Deputy for some time about the role, what they did, that kind of thing, and it turns out I got most of it right. so that was kind of lucky. Jenny: Yes, although probably with your journalistic experience I thought that might have helped with drafting that character too. In fact I wondered if you’d ever brushed up against the Head of Security in your role in journalism, but obviously not. Mark: No, it was purely an invention and the funny thing is that the one thing I really wanted to know, because in the books I have Hugo most of the time carrying his gun with him, and I said to this guy do you carry your gun when you’re off duty, just walking around Paris? He said well, you know, every embassy has an arrangement with the local government. They basically sit down and negotiate and figure out what they want to do, whether they will allow that or not. So I said OK, but do you? Do you carry your gun when you’re going around Paris? And he said, well, like I said, we meet with the authorities and see what they want us to do and if they’re comfortable with it then that’s something that can happen. And I said, dude, do you carry your gun around Paris? See he’s a diplomat, right, he’s trying to dodge the question. And he said well, what do you have Hugo doing? And I said, yeah, I have him carrying his gun. And he goes, well, I wouldn’t say that you’re altogether wrong. That was my answer, and I went with it. Jenny: You’ve taken him to London and Barcelona as well in later books, haven’t you? I guess that’s all a part of keeping him fresh, and developing him over half a dozen books. Hugo Marston goes to London Mark: Yes. I think it’s important to try and keep things fresh as you say, and going to London was part of that, and likewise to Barcelona. Although don’t tell anybody, but it may be that I take him places where I want to go on vacation. That’s also possible. But I think my Editor and readers generally seem to like to see him stay in Paris so mostly that’s what we’re going to do, keep him there, which honestly is no hardship for me whatsoever. Jenny: This is diverting a little bit from our script, but Cara Black has taken some of her readers to Paris and almost acted as a bit of a guide for them. Would you ever think about doing something like that? Mark: I was doing that just about three weeks ago. Jenny: Were you? Mark: Yes. It’s a group who operate out of the Politics and Prose bookstore in DC. They’re the ones that took Cara to do that and they invited me last month, beginning of July, to do that, so I went over and spent a week with them. There were a dozen of my readers and we spent the week together. It was just fantastic. I took them to three or four places in the books and had drinks and dinner with them. Jenny: That’s my idea of a perfect holiday. Mark: Mine too. Jenny: You obviously then have a good chance to knit in with your reader expectations. I was interested to see you referring at one point to a reader’s outrage when you killed off one of your characters and I was wondering about Hugo’s love life too, because there’s a tempting woman there and it never seems to advance very far and you’re always on tenterhooks about where it’s going to go. Tell me a bit about managing reader expectations and how much you listen to them. Mark: How do I put this nicely? I spent some time with an author called Philip Kerr who unfortunately passed away recently and who wrote a very well-known series, (the Bernie Gunther series) and he bristled somewhat at readers expecting various things. When he was criticized for making a mistake in one of his books he said, well if you want a perfect book get a robot to write it. I think what he was saying was, do the best you can, do what you need to do to write a book, and there’s always going to be somebody who’s unhappy, which was the case when I killed off that character. I had a very loyal reader up till then who was very upset. Fortunately I managed to meet with her in a bookstore and explain some of the circumstances, and she was fine after that. I think readers generally are very happy to let the author take the lead and write the story that they need to write. Initially some people complained a little bit about my character Tom Green and his colourful language and maybe he’s been less colourful in some ways since, and that’s fine. I welcome feedback positive and negative. It’s just a question of what I take on board and what I think suits the series. As far as the characters, you’re right, I do have Claudia and Hugo having a sort of on-again-off-again, but I like that. Hugo’s a guy who’s been married twice. He’s a little bit gun shy, I suppose, and Claudia herself is a strong, very independent woman and doesn’t want to give up that independence so it keeps a little bit of tension, hopefully, between the two of them, especially when she or he decides to start seeing other people. The Reluctant Matador – Hugo in Barcelona Jenny: I was a little bit worried in the last one I read that she was going to have a separate affair with Tom on the side. I thought, if that happened what would I think? Mark: You know, that’s never even crossed my mind, but now you’ve put it in my head I don’t know that I should do with that. Jenny: I thought you might almost be setting it up, just in a subtle sort of way, but that must be me just being super-suspicious. Mark: You know Jenny what might happen is that they may look like it but it would be like an April Fool’s joke that they would be playing on Hugo. Which now that you say it, I think that’s a great idea! I should do that. Jenny: I did think, I don’t think he’d have that line crossed, because I think it would just spoil something integral to the story. Mark: Yes, I agree. I don’t think either Claudia or even Tom would do that. Jenny: You’re an Englishman living in Austin, Texas who still works as a prosecutor in the district attorney’s office. I’ve read that you do all your writing in a local library – is that still the case? Mark: Yes, I do some in my local library which is about a mile away, and then I just discovered recently another library that’s about a fifteen minute drive but it’s in the Texas hill country and it’s a beautiful library. It’s super quiet and it’s got some really comfortable chairs next to large windows that overlook the hill country and it’s really just the most relaxing, peaceful place. So I’ve started going there as well, so I’m writing my books in two libraries. The funny thing is, at the new library I went to introduce myself and give them a few copies of my books and apparently they’d just been talking about me because they were looking at bringing some writers in to do some workshops and they knew I was local. So that was a lot of fun to meet those guys and they’re actually mentioned in my acknowledgments of the book that’s coming out in January. Jenny: So that precludes you doing your writing at 4 am, or 10 pm, I guess. Mark: Yes. I enjoy my sleep very much. I would be horrible writing at 4 am and I admire writers who can go past 10 pm as well. I just can’t do it. I have to have my sleep. Jenny: So is it a lot of Saturdays? Mark: Yes. Typically I’ll do a couple of hours in the afternoon on Saturday and probably a couple of hours in the afternoon on Sunday. I tend to write quite quickly for a couple of reasons. One is the journalism, being used to writing to a deadline and the other is being a lawyer. I am quite precise when I write. The first draft is usually pretty close to the final thing so I don’t have to do a lot of re-writing. Then when I’m not writing, you know if I’m driving to work or whatever, I’m thinking about what’s coming next so by the time I sit down I’m essentially ready to go. Someone asked me to write a piece about how I deal with writer’s block and I laughed and said, I can’t write that, I’m sorry. I don’t have writer’s block because I don’t have time for it, which is the truth. I have a couple of hours here and there. I just don’t have a chance to sit down and twiddle my thumbs and wonder what’s coming next. I have to get on with it. Jenny: In one of the later books, I think it’s Book Six, you feature a character named Michael Harmuth. There’s a touching story attached to him. He was a real person who was a great fan of yours and you ended up including him as a character in the book. Could you tell us a little bit about that story? The Paris Librarian – Hugo Marston series Mark: Yes, I’d love to. Generally speaking, I don’t like coming up with names for characters and so quite often I’ll use the names of friends. The way Michael’s name got into the book – his daughter actually contacted me. She works in a bookstore in Wisconsin and she had sent me an email saying that her dad Michael was a big fan of the series but that he had cancer and she didn’t think that he was going to make it until the publication of the next book. She wondered if there was any way I could get an advanced copy, because we were in the editing stages. And so I called my editor and said please, please send me an advanced reader copy as soon as you can and he sent it to me and then I wrote something in the front for Michael and sent it on to him. And you’ll forgive me if I choke up telling this story. He was thrilled to pieces to get the book but he would email me every now and again and say I’m reading it slowly because I don’t want to get finished with it. And so I just thought why not do something a little more and so I wrote to him and I said since you’re a fan, why don’t we put you in the book, make you a character, have a Michael Harmuth in the book. And he loved that idea. He jumped at that. And I said, you know what, I’ve never done this for anybody, and that’s true, I will let you choose who you want to be. You can be a good guy, bad guy, witness, whatever you want to be. And, I probably shouldn’t reveal his role, should I, Jenny? Jenny: No. Michael Harmuth with daughter Sarah and grand daughter Scout. Mark: That would ruin the book. But he chose his role, and I wrote it up that way and since then I’ve had a chance to meet with his daughter at a Mystery Convention. We had drinks together, and a big hug. And it’s nice. As I told Michael, this way you get to live a bit longer and hang out with Hugo and his friends and cause a little bit of mischief if you want to. Jenny: That is really gorgeous. Mark: Well, it’s a nice thing to do, it’s a very easy thing for me to do, to make him a little happier, make his family a little happier. To me it was a win-win all around. Jenny: Yes. Now Hugo is working closely with a transgender police officer, Lieutenant Camille. Did you have to do a lot of research to write that character? Mark: Yes and no. I did to some degree. I’ve always been interested in equal rights for LGBTQ people and so it’s not something that’s terribly alien to me as a straight white guy. On the other hand, it is. I had some concerns initially because I contacted my editor and said I’m thinking about doing this. I said to him, look, this is the world we live in, there are a lot of trans people and I think books should generally reflect the world in which they’re set. He said yes, what are you talking to me for, go for it, it’s your book. And so I created Camille but I also tried not to make a big deal about it. She’s one of four or five major characters and I don’t want to write a political screed or try and change people’s minds about things or even necessarily be a train for educating people, but I just thought it would be interesting and relevant and appropriate to have someone like that in the book and I love her. She’s developed, and a lot of people really like having her in there. I have had zero negative feedback about that which I’m delighted about. It speaks very highly of my readers, I think. Jenny: Yes, that’s great. Now if readers wanted to discover Hugo’s Paris where would you suggest they go? Doors lead singer Jim Morrison’s grave in Pere Lachaise Cemetery, Paris – featured in one of the Hugo Marston mysteries. Mark: Definitely the cemeteries, because they are so much like little very quiet villages. But they’re relaxing, they’re peaceful, they’re not really creepy at all. They’re so full of history. All of the major cemeteries – Montmartre, Père Lachaise – have so many historic figures in them, it’s just fascinating to visit, it’s visually beautiful, and they are little spaces of calm and quiet in a very busy city. Definitely recommend those. And the Sixth Arrondissement where Hugo lives, Rue Jacob – I always walk down that street every time I go to Paris with all its cafes and little shops and studios. Those are the main places I would go, not the Eiffel Tower, not the Louvre, not the tourist traps. Rue Jacob cafe, Paris Jenny: That sounds great. You’ve branched out in more recent times and you’ve done some other books apart from Hugo – psychological thrillers featuring a psycopath. I think you’ve done two of them so far, the most recent one was your book this year, “Dominic”. I found it amusing because Dominic is a charming Englishman, a prosecutor and a musician in Austin, Texas, and I almost want to jokingly say to you, “You’re not thinking of taking up music, are you?” Mark: That would be a very bad idea for everybody. I can neither sing nor play an instrument, and nobody wants me to try. Jenny: But you are moving more into thrillers, so would you like to tell us a bit about that? Mark: Yes, I’m not abandoning Hugo in any way, that series is going to keep going. But I’ve always had an interest in the criminal mind, in psychopaths, sociopaths, how they operate, how they think. So the first book, “Hollow Man” was an exploration of that. Because Hugo is such a nice guy, he’s just a really good human being, and I thought, can I write a character who’s not, who’s the opposite, who is, literally, soul-less? “Hollow Man” was supposed to be a stand-alone and then I had an idea for a sequel and now I’m banging around an idea for the third one to make it a trilogy, but we’ll have to see. Jenny: Moving to a more general focus, away from specific books, what one thing have you done, perhaps more than any other, that has helped you make this writing career a success? Mark: I think any small success I’ve had may have come out of the fact that I have written quite a few books in a short period of time. When authors poke around the internet, they’re always looking for advice on how to increase sales, increase readership, and the one thing that pops up all the time is the best marketing is writing another book. Because every time you write another book, people review it, stores move it to the front of the shelves and readers can be voracious. Even now, when I have one book per year, in fact when I had two Hugo books per year, I would get messages from people saying, “when’s the next Hugo? I’m waiting for the next Hugo.” It’s wonderful. So I think if you write a series the best thing you can do is just to keep the books coming. I’ve slowed down to one a year, and I get loads of messages asking me when the next one’s coming out. I think it’s worked out well for me that the first six books all came out in fairly quick succession, because the first one was October 2012 and the eighth one comes out at the beginning of next year, so putting them out quickly has been very helpful. Jenny: I guess if people discover you and like you, it gives them a reason to stick around. They don’t forget your name. Mark: That’s exactly right. And I think that’s a large part of it. They remember and also they get invested in the characters and in the story-lines and so if you keep them coming, they’ll keep buying them. Jenny: Turning to Mark as reader, because the premise for this show is partly series books and there is a bit of a phenomenon with digital publishing now, that people can just buy a whole lot and read them in succession. Have you ever been a binge reader yourself and who currently would you be reading that you’d like to recommend to our listeners? Mark: When I was younger I was absolutely a binge reader and in fact a couple of my kids are that way inclined, when they’re not distracted by electronics. Unfortunately these days, with the job, with the kids, with the writing, I don’t get to read nearly as much as I’d like to. But we just had a vacation and I think I got through seven books and it was such a pleasure. It made me very, very happy. As for who I’m reading, the aforementioned Philip Kerr, his Bernie Gunther books are fantastic. Jamie Mason has two books out and a third one coming out next year, I think. She’s a wonderful writer. Tana French – read everything. I’m a big fan of Alan Furst as well. Jennifer Hillier writes wonderful books, thrillers. There are just so many, that’s the problem. The one series that I always pick up and read is by James Ziskin. Jamie Mason – up and coming favorite Jenny: Oh yes, I’ve had him on the podcast actually, he’s fun. Mark: Yeah, frightful fellow. Whenever he comes and does a signing in Austin he stays with me but I genuinely enjoy his books, they’re great, it’s a great series. Jenny: Ellie Stone, yes. We’re coming to the end of our time so circling back from the beginning and looking over your whole writing life, at this stage in your career, if you were doing it all again, what would you change – if anything? Mark: I would probably pay more attention to the mechanics of writing, to the craft of writing. And I say that because my story didn’t begin with “The Bookseller” – that was just my first book that I got published. Before that I wrote three entire novels that got rejected by agents hundreds of times over and I’ve gone back since and looked at those books and I see why they were rejected. It makes perfect sense. So I think, looking back, I would have worked a little harder to become a better writer before submitting any work. I feel like I’m still learning. Every time I read a good novel it teaches me something. I tell other people too, always study the craft. Know the rules and then discard them if you want to, but know what they are. Jenny: What is next for Mark the writer? Mark: I just finished a stand alone novel that my agent has. It’s set in the First World War and Second World War, it’s a dual timeline and that’s, again, crime fiction set in France (surprise, surprise). She’s going to hopefully try and find a place for that. Then I’m turning my eyes towards the New Year, January of next year, when the new Hugo Marston book comes out, and that’s called “The Book Artist”, set in the Montmartre district of Paris. And I think that I’m going to do a little book tour around the north of North America, so that’s going to be pretty exciting. Jenny: And that one that you mentioned, the one set in Montmartre, you’ve got that on pre-order have you? Mark: That is now available for pre-order. If you go to wherever you buy books they should have a link to it, where you can pre-order it. (Pre-orders at BookPeople – you can actually request a signed or personalized copy at Book People, just make that request on the online form, Amazon and Barnes & Noble. – editor note.) Jenny: Where can readers find you on line? Mark: I am on Twitter (@MarkPryorBooks), I have a website (www.markpryorbooks.com) and I also have an author page on Facebook so I’m pretty easy to find. If you go to my website there’s a mailing list too which I know people are a little hesitant to go on, but I’ve had a mailing list set up for a year and I have never sent anything out. So if you’re afraid of being ‘spammed’ you needn’t be because you will get maybe one email a year from me. And if anybody sends me a message I always respond, I love interacting with readers. Jenny: Mark, it’s been a delight talking to you. You should put out a newsletter if you are ever going to do another tour in Paris, just so that people know that it’s coming up. Mark: Yes, I should. There are so many things I should be doing, Jenny. I want to thank you for having me on the show. I really appreciate it. Jenny: That’s fine. Just getting back to that, I guess the bookshop itself could have filled those dozen places without having to even advertise it. Mark: Yes, they did all the marketing work, fortunately. Jenny: Thank you so much, Mark, and we’ll look forward to your progress with interest. Bye now. Thanks To Our Technical Support: The Joys of Binge Reading podcast is put together with wonderful technical help from Dan Cotton at DC Audio Services. Dan is an experienced sound and video engineer who’s ready and available to help you with your next project… Seek him out at [email protected] or Phone + 64 – 21979539. He’s fast, takes pride in getting it right, and lovely to work with. Our voice overs are done by Abe Raffills, and Abe’s another gem. He got 20 years of experience on both sides of the camera/microphone as a cameraman/director and also voice artist and television presenter. Abe’s vocal delivery is both light hearted and warm and he is super easy to work with no matter the job. You’ll find him at [email protected]

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