Penn Jillette | The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan

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The Magnificent Others with Billy Corgan 1h 41m 3 speakers 8 chapters transcribed 5 months ago
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What does Penn Jillette mean by being an 'honest liar'?

Penn Jillette 0:00
When you go to the Penn & Teller Theater, we tell you we're going to lie to you. We tell you we're going to break out of that morality, and you are okay with that.
Billy Corgan 0:09
What is it about the human ego that will say, no, I'm going to override a sense that says, no, I shouldn't trust this person?
Penn Jillette 0:17
You don't get into magic because you like fooling. You get into magic because you like being fooled.
Unknown 0:23
We're going deep here. I love it.
Penn Jillette 0:24
In all life, one of the most enjoyable experiences is the aha.
Unknown 0:32
Clown college? Big leap there.

How did Penn Jillette's upbringing influence his views on morality?

Unknown 0:36
I'm sorry, got to run.
Billy Corgan 0:40
Penn Jillette, thank you very much for being on my magical show.
Penn Jillette 0:44
Thank you for having me.
Billy Corgan 0:48
Usually when I talk to someone of your accomplishment, you know, it's a bit of a life review. I kind of like to do my own take on people's lives. But it didn't feel apropos with you for this reason. Not that you don't deserve a life review. You certainly do. But I thought, here's a rare chance to talk with a very unique person with a very unique mind. So I would call it like, let's call it the softball interview where I want to kind of throw you some softballs.

What role did James Randi play in Penn Jillette's journey?

Billy Corgan 1:14
Oh, good. And we'll just go wherever we want to go.
Penn Jillette 1:16
So not a lot of mathematics then.
Billy Corgan 1:20
No, sir. Most easy stuff. Okay. So let's start here. James Randi. Oh, sure. He doesn't really call... What would you call him? I know he does magic, but he's more of a rank contour.
Penn Jillette 1:35
He was, you know, he was a very good and very successful magician. And he had done some... It's kind of a beautiful cinematic story. Like Houdini, like many people. And I mean, not at the same level, but also we, Penn and Teller, did some stuff like that. He was doing... things that pretend to be supernatural.
Billy Corgan 2:04
And... Was it like a fake mysticism, and then you would reveal the con or something?
Penn Jillette 2:08
No, no, no, no. He was doing it for reals.

What insights does Penn share about the art of magic?

Penn Jillette 2:10
I'm talking about when he was like 19. And that thing, if you are a good person, it immediately breaks your heart and crushes your soul.
Billy Corgan 2:24
Oh, I see.
Penn Jillette 2:24
when you see how vulnerable people are, and how scared they are, and how lonely they are, and that you can just control them and steal from them. It's an amazing feeling. Now, it's even more amazing that some people don't recoil from that, but jump into it and continue doing it. You know, people that do fake psychic stuff. But it built up a... Rage is too unkind a word, but it built up an anger for people who take advantage of other people. So Randy, like Houdini, went from being a very... skilled and successful magician, Randy not at the level of Houdini, but still very good, to being a kind of crusader or scientist in terms of... I mean, one of the quick things you'd call him would be Ghostbuster, but that, you know, not in the sense of the TV show, but just saying, there seems to be nothing supernatural.
Penn Jillette 3:30
You know, that was kind of Randy's point.
Billy Corgan 3:32
So his opinion, there was no supernatural.
Penn Jillette 3:34
Yeah, and the thing is that he searched for it so conscientiously. You know, that's the thing that when people deal with skeptics, they often talk about being closed-minded, not being open to things. And the truth seems to me to be quite the opposite. The people that I've known that have worked hard on skepticism have been the ones that most... uh, investigate. And you end up being, uh, you know, uh, in, uh... I'd been a... I was a follower of James Arandi, and he was a mentor and a hero and a very good friend of mine, um, from the time I was 18. And all that time, I just saw him searching out every single chance there was something supernatural and finding out there was nothing. Which is also Houdini.

How does Penn Jillette view the relationship between consent and deception?

Penn Jillette 4:26
Houdini is the same story.
Billy Corgan 4:27
Yeah, there was this quote attached to him, but I don't know if it was just more of a descriptor. Clever deception over mysticism.
Penn Jillette 4:34
Yeah, yeah. I don't know of that quotation.
Billy Corgan 4:38
Sure, but I just thought it was interesting because in looking you up and trying to do something to kind of approach this interview from a slightly recent... You know, what Randy would call himself was an honest liar.
Penn Jillette 4:50
And what's fascinating about magic... I feel like I'm an honest liar.

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