463. Learn to Live Your Values and Say No, with Dr. Sunita Sah and Host Dan Hesse
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What is the background of Dr. Sunita Sah?
And now, here's your mentor.
Welcome, I'm your host, Dan Hesse, and I'm with a national best-selling author, an award-winning professor at Cornell University, and an expert in organizational psychology, Dr. Sunita Saw. She leads groundbreaking research on influence, authority, trust, compliance, and defiance. A trained physician, she currently teaches executives, leaders, and students in healthcare and business. Dr. Saw is a sought-after international speaker and consultant, advisor to government agencies, and former commissioner of the National Commission on Forensic Science. Her multidisciplinary research and analyses have been widely published in leading academic journals and media, including The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, Harvard Business Review, and Scientific American.
Today, we're going to talk about her bestselling book, The Power of No in a World That Demands Yes, which is about how we learn to say no when saying yes conflicts with our personal values. Welcome, Sunita. It's a real pleasure to introduce another fan of the band The Cure to the show.
It's wonderful to be here. I'm so excited to talk to you.
By the way, just real quick on The Cure. I saw them last in 2014. They played at Bottle Rock. It's a music festival my wife and I go to every year. So we've been every year, except during COVID, since 14. And they have a strict curfew in the town of Napa. And they actually pulled the power plug on the cure at 10 p.m. because they were supposed to be finished and they weren't. So that was that was kind of fun. So I also noticed in reading your bio and I didn't realize this, that you are an expert in forensic science. There was an article in The Wall Street Journal about three weeks ago about how many people, which include my wife and I, watch the forensic files at night before going to sleep because it helps us sleep.
I'm just curious. Do you watch the show Forensic Files and do you like it? I have not watched that show, but when I was asked to be a commissioner on the National Commission on Forensic Science, I was a little bit surprised by what I uncovered. Not actually a forensic scientist, My area of expertise and why they asked me was really about my work on transparency and independence and how to really improve the rigor of the research that was being done in forensic science of the validity and the reliability of forensic science. And when I got there, it's not like TV that, you know, you have a fingerprint or you have something that goes through a computer and then it says it's a match. It's so different.
And I was really horrified by some of the things that I learned that, you know, you can test fingerprints in different ways, in different labs on five points, seven points, 12 points. And it's really human judgment at the end of the day. And the amount of reliability between one forensic analysis and another is really quite large. And what's even more alarming was that the same scientist doing the same testing two weeks later can come up with a different answer. So even with their own internal consistency, we're finding errors in forensic science. And so really the commission was about to really look at the science and get the science back into forensic science and improve the rigour, the validity and the reliability of such science.
Well, you might not like the show because the show leaves you with the impression they got the right person because of the forensic science.
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