Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This is a podcast from Rover.
You know, we maybe talked about 18 months ago, and they said they're interested, and then, you know, finally got the call, and they told me I was straight after Steve Adams, so that was tough enough to follow.
Yeah. So I've been listening to it. I was just telling you off here, I've been listening to it in the node, in the sauna, just in bite-sized samples. I mean, the other things you wouldn't realise when you go and do a podcast like that, I imagine, Darren, like that people wear and how people are going to consume that information.
That's right.
Chapter 2: What responsibilities did Darren Shand have as the All Blacks Manager?
Yeah, well, we've all got to listen somewhere, don't we, I suppose?
Yeah, that's where I've been doing it. Now, Darren, All Black Manager, 20 years, and I know there'll be like, well, you know, people might have an idea about what that role is all about for doing it for 20 years. But in a nutshell, can you just sort of explain what you had to do as All Blacks Manager? And it seemed as though the better you got at it, the more roles and jobs you got added to it.
Yeah, probably if you go back to the start, the initial appointment was post the 2003 World Cup where John Mitchell and Robbie Deans were sort of leading the crew and Doc Hobbs was the chair at the time and Chris Moller and they decided after that campaign they wanted to kind of change the structure of things and have, I guess, more of a strategic leadership role or more of executive leadership role where there was a really strong connection between the
Chapter 3: How did Darren Shand prepare for his interview with the All Blacks?
The mothership in the team. So, look, honestly, I went in pretty much eyes wide open because I've really been, I guess, a traditional team manager with the Crusaders. You know, the operational person doing all the stuff that happens that no one sees. But this role probably required a bit more leadership.
So, in essence, Graham just wanted to worry about coaching on the field and he just wanted me to do everything else.
You nailed your job interview, though. I did enjoy that story. How did you nail it?
Oh, well, I wasn't sure, Miles, when I put my hand up whether I was ready for it or not.
Chapter 4: Who are some of the most memorable All Blacks players Darren has worked with?
And I also wasn't sure what they really wanted. So I rang the panel before the interview just to be clear on what... what they really wanted. And I got a sense that they were looking for someone that was in the environment, was current, had professional skills, understood the role.
On the last interview, and there was quite a few, there was one that I think the chairman of the group said to me that there'd been a leak in the papers of who the other candidates were. And the other two were Andy Hayden and Andy Dalton, I think. And so I knew both of them hadn't managed a team of recent times.
Both great union, both have done great things in their respective roles, but hadn't managed the rugby team. So just said to the panel, oh, well, now that you've confirmed to the other, where have I got the job? Because I'm the only one that meets the criteria. Yeah, that's so good. I was a bit brave, but yeah, sweat was pouring down my back. Yeah.
But DJ Graham was one of the panellists and he walked out. I was sitting in reception and gave me a wee wink as he walked past.
Chapter 5: What unique qualities make certain All Blacks stand out as individuals?
Knowing you'd know. Nice work. Now tell me, like, we talked to Nick Gill, who's now at the Baltimore Ravens as their head trainer, which is an amazing role. We asked him, like, who are some of the fittest All Blacks that really would surprise you? And one of them was Bowdoin Barrett that he said. Like, for you...
Pulling back the curtain for fans like us, who are some of the All Blacks that surprised you just as not so much as athletes, but as people and what made them so special?
Oh, God, that's, yeah. There's been a few, Mo, so that's a toughie.
Chapter 6: How did Tana Umaga influence the All Blacks environment?
I appreciate that. It's a big 20-year remit there.
Just coming to mind at the moment is Ali Williams. Who was a former member of the show. You might not know that.
Which is incredibly surprising for us.
How he's ended up where he is, I'm constantly trying to pinch myself. We just had a reunion recently. We were hosted by Anna and Ali, so it was pretty cool.
um because i remember um in when he was playing in france for racing 92 i was over in paris doing some work ahead of a tour and i had i think i had lunch with ali and um he was you know full of full of everything and had lots of ideas for me and It's going to get me speeches all over the world and so forth. And I wake up, here he is on his way to a French jail.
I remember literally two or three months later, I was in Auckland, I was out for a run in the morning and I was running through sort of the Herne Bay, Ponsonby area in the dark. And I hear this, hey. And I look and here's Ali in this beaten up old ute, you know, back in New Zealand sort of trying to recover from life. And now look where he's got. I love the story.
I love, you know, the people that were different. You know, I really enjoyed those sort of characters. And you had some good times and you had some tough times with them too around when things didn't go so well. But I guess you're trying to, build a relationship and respect with them.
Respect for them as a person but also when they're down try and hold them up and when they're good just celebrate it.
Well talking of celebrating, one of the points that you mentioned that I really enjoyed when you talked about other characters that you really liked, one was Dan Carter and you said that he lived for the moment and really loved shining in those big moments especially obviously when we think of 2015, that World Cup after what he'd been robbed of in terms of injury in the years gone by.
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Chapter 7: What was the hardest moment Darren faced as the All Blacks Manager?
And I look back, that's some of the best of times, you know, what was said and what was reflected on. And you're just coming back, you know, if you'd won something, you'd be in the middle of the room. So you could really, just for those, I don't know, 10, 15 minutes, you could really, you know, nail it.
And he was great as a, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the club rooms that we used to do every Tuesday. But he was the president and president.
He always brought joy, you know, he always brought a lot of life to that and he really took his role as a president pretty seriously to make sure it was a, I mean, the reason we set it up was to have some fun, you know, and in a week where there's pressure and scrutiny and all that sort of stuff, he was good at bringing that. Very good.
Darren, when you came in, it was 2004, and that would have been Tana Umanga's era.
And when Tana came into the All Blacks, I remember, I think he put it in his book, or he said it before, that it was really, really tough to come into an All Blacks environment that was just heavily weighted towards the veterans of the team, and they had their standards and protocols, and it wasn't really welcoming.
What was it like when you started and Tana was there and he had tried to change and did so successfully and to become captain and change the way that the environment was?
Yeah, well, I think if you looked at that season, there were sort of two parts. There was the first part, which included the rugby championship. And I guess that story has been well told about South Africa and how things went pear-shaped there. And we kind of came home and, I guess, rebuilt the thing from scratch, really.
had a group of players that didn't probably value that environment as much as their super environment. So we really wanted it to be the best. And that tour we did in November, we brought a few people back like Anton, Oliver, Norm Maxwell, a few of the other guys dropped off.
Richie sort of stepped in to be Tana's number two and it's actually interesting looking back some of the I guess the frameworks we came up with back then served us right through the whole 20 years in terms of how we wanted to be and how we wanted to behave and that sort of thing so it was pretty important Tana was you know people didn't mess with Tana he was was pretty strong in his perspective and his view so he was the right person right then to to kind of lead that and
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Chapter 8: How did the All Blacks celebrate their 2011 World Cup victory?
Now, there's the famous story that you've talked about. I know where Steve Hansen was late to the meeting. Kevin Milamu called him out. But, and we know that story and that was great stuff. But did you guys as managers or coaches, When did either of you guys ever play up?
Now that you can talk about it, that you're off, did you ever have a moment when, I can see you smiling and laughing, like was there a Graham Henry that had too many wines one night? Was there a Darren Shan that had too many shandies one night? Like what happens, anything spring to mind of where celebrations might have got the better of you?
Well, the worst thing was timing, you know, like that was always because it was frowned upon. And I used to cover up, you know, because as the manager, I could always be last on. Yeah. Us, you know. And so if I was even slightly late and I'd be getting it as I walked on, I'd be like, hey, come on. I've got to make sure everyone's here.
I do remember we used to have a buddy system in the management. So you had one person that was your buddy. and I would say at least three or four times, Mick Byrne, Big Mick, Mick the Kick. Oh, yes, the Aussie kicking coach.
Saved my bacon a few times just ringing me, because him and I had to be on the bus five minutes early, and if I wasn't five minutes, he'd ring me, so he did honestly save me a few times. Yes, Sir Graham liked a pinot or ten, but... And, like, I think we all... I guess we are conscious of role, too, and... We probably tend to have a couple of quiets during the week.
I do remember in Argentina, we had a tradition. We used to go to the same restaurant in Buenos Aires that Jock Hobbs had first taken us to. And so after Jock passed, we continued that. And it always ended up was a Tuesday night, I think. I always remember that one. we'd always have quite probably more than we needed to. Yeah, yeah. Tradition. Saluting the great man. Yeah, nice.
As a role as manager, you know, you've 20 years that you did it and you pretty much did everything, including you were responsible for, well, not the quarterfinal loss against France, but the colour of the jersey. That was, you signed off on that particular colour. Why was that and how did that come about?
I don't know. When you sit in a room and you're with all the
key adidas people and they kind of put something to you you don't have too many places to squirm out of but yeah that was honestly I don't remember other than knowing that I yeah that was one of the not me solely but certainly I sort of led that project every year actually with the jersey and yeah we certainly changed the process a bit following that got a wider group involved and
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