The Nerve with Maureen Callahan
JFK Jr.’s Plane Crash Romanticized, Kennedy Family Dark Truths, & Hoda Kotb's Dateline Backlash
31 Mar 2026
Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What are the inconsistencies in Ryan Murphy’s 'Love Story' portrayal of the Kennedy family?
Hello and welcome to your Tuesday edition of The Nerve. I am your host Maureen Callahan. I am so excited to do this show with you guys today. This is, I was up late, like, like happily up late, like pulling clips and old articles and essays and interviews and mixed media, because we're doing it. You guys, the finale of love story aired last week. And, um, I watched it in real time.
I took notes in real time. And, uh, I looked around for my nearest sledgehammer because we're taking it to this. We're taking it. We're taking it to this piece of cultural garbage. It is, it's a dangerous lie. Okay.
This is, this is where like pop culture transcends and, and, and has real consequences for the historical record and the ways in which the mainstream media gets to continue telling their little fairy tale. because they're all fucking children. Okay. Real talk about fake people. The guy who caused the crash that killed Carolyn Bessette, age 33, and her brilliant sister, Lauren, age 34.
Then, oh my God, the heart of the show as ever, should I say a sever? the heart of the show, always your feedback. I have a nice healthy pile of your emails, but we at nerve HQ saw your response to our weekend mini nerve, which landed. with the shock and awe of alien lifecraft. Finally, someone said what we were all thinking and going to ourselves, am I really fucked up?
Because I think that Hoda Kotb is laughing and smirking in Savannah Guthrie's face. We're right. We're right. Then we're going to tie this all up with a bow. Tie this all up with a bow. We've got one person Telling one version of a story who's about to befoul our streaming services and basic cable airwaves yet again. And may I just say, we at The Nerve cannot wait. We can't wait.
And then we are going to talk. about a saint over at The Nerve, and I mean it. This is a spiritual, philosophical, intellectual godmother of The Nerve, and I've heard from you guys before, and you love her as much as I do. So are you ready? Are you ready? Let's go! Ladies, are you looking for a solution to feeling the following?
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Chapter 2: How did the show romanticize JFK Jr.’s fatal flight?
Sacrilege. Then the therapist advises a trial separation and listen, the gall, the gall of these writers to put these words in a character's mouth, knowing what's coming in this episode. Here we go. Your advice for our marriage is
Divorce? No. But I think part of the reason that you two aren't finding any clarity is that you're stuck in this sort of liminal space.
Maybe if you severed contact for a little while, you would gain a clearer idea of what you're missing or what your life would actually look like without the other.
Mm-hmm. For how long?
Yeah, like one, two weeks. A month, maybe two.
Do you have too many clients? No, no. I mean, you obviously would see me. You just wouldn't see each other. I can't not talk to my wife for a month. Yeah, I don't want to do that either. I mean, I don't think I could, even if you asked me to.
Well, I mean, you won't come together, you won't let go, and instead you are just white-knuckling this marriage into a downward spiral. A downward spiral. John, I can't use the verb piloted because he was not equipped to pilot that plane and he in fact crashed it. brutally, he went into a graveyard spiral. You cannot tell me these writers are...
going to claim something is elevated as artful foreshadowing. That is crass beyond measure. And you know who it's most disrespectful to, not just the memories of Carolyn and Lauren Bissett, but their mother, Anne Freeman, who is still alive, and Lauren's twin sister, Lisa, who is still alive. And the other obscenity in that scene, the therapist says, you're in this liminal space.
John didn't know what the word liminal meant. There's this moment the actor looks at the Carolyn character like, you know what that means? I never heard that word before. I've never heard that word before. After that session, the two of them go day drinking at Walker's, which is a real tavern in New York City. It's been there forever. I had a birthday there one year. It's right next door to...
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Chapter 3: What true details about JFK Jr.'s plane crash contradict the show?
Here's something for you. That was also the 30th anniversary of Chappaquiddick. I mean the symmetry, 30th. 30th Chappaquiddick in which Ted Kennedy, I'm going to say drunkenly, he's dead. I can't libel him. He was a huge drunk. We all know he was drunk, drunkenly drove his car off a bridge in Chappaquiddick. It flipped over in a shallow amount of water.
He escaped and he left a 28 year old campaign aid devoted to the Kennedys named Mary Jo Kopechny
to die and hers was a slow agonizing death she was upside down breathing from an air pocket with her neck craned it's all an ass knot and she could have survived if he had only gotten help but he didn't want to get help now she was collateral fucking damage for him he wanted to run for president can't do that if he's like like so what did the machine do it was her fault What was she doing?
What was she doing in a car with a married Senator? Here's what else never happened. I took note. As I said, I took notes. Happens in the show, happens in the scene, never happened. Carolyn unhooks her seatbelt and says suggestively to John, because what's sexier than knowing you're going to die in a violent way in about two minutes? She says sexily to John, permission to enter the cockpit and
And then she climbs into the seat next to him and she, the audio, the sound design in the scene, like you hear the perfect click of her belting herself in the perfect adjustment of her beautiful earphones with the little microphone. Like everything is designed to sound and look dainty and elegant. It's really fucking perverse. It, it,
aside from the fact that this never happened, this never happened. And then she leaves her sister alone in the backseat. Her sister, her only use in this story, this was, by the way, a brilliant woman who worked in finance, a star. She was going places. Everyone loved her. Her only function in this series is to cheerlead Carolyn to stay with John. That's it.
And what do we see of Lauren in the backseat of this plane? Just smiling so contentedly because the quarreling lovers are getting along again. Now the plane warnings start going off. And again, we're going to talk about the way this is depicted versus reality. Real talk about fake shit. Let's go.
everything okay yeah no you should go back to your seat i want to stay with you okay so that is that is meant to be an echo of jackie kennedy's uh, she gave an interview, uh, I believe this was the one to Arthur Schlesinger, not long after the assassination, like really in the immediate days after.
And she was talking about the Cuban missile crisis, which he caused, um, read Christopher Hitchens on this, you know, anyway. Um, and the entire, uh, East coast of America was, um, preparing to be attacked by the Russians and blown to bits and nuclear annihilation. And, um, Jack Kennedy had tried to send her away with the children and she said, I just want to be here with you.
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Chapter 4: What was the reaction to Hoda Kotb's interview with Savannah Guthrie?
Here we go.
President Clinton has offered that John be buried in Arlington National Cemetery alongside President Kennedy and Jackie next to the eternal flame. However, if we wanted to keep John and Carolyn together, we would propose a holyhood, the Kennedy family burial plot in Brookline, Massachusetts. Why would my daughter be buried in a state she has no ties to?
Are you suggesting those are my two choices, which you so kindly laid out for me?
No, no, of course not.
Yes.
But if you prefer that Carolyn be buried with John, the family would insist that he be alongside the rest of the deceased Kennedy relatives. The family would insist. The gall of you to sit there and try and dictate terms. I'm simply relaying the wishes of the Kennedy family.
If the Kennedy family feels so strongly about this, why did they send you? I do love that. I do love that. You know, Ed Schlossberg also said of other requests at the service for John and Carolyn at, I believe it was St. Ignatius in New York City. I think that was Jackie's church, that non-Kennedys don't eulogize Kennedys. That's how up his ass this guy is. He's not a Kennedy either.
You're not a Kennedy, Ed. You're Schlossberg. Fuck do you think you are? Who the fuck do you think you are? Ask not. Ted Kennedy rushed in to do damage control. He had the remains hastily autopsied. The medical examiners report and photos, what photos were taken. They tried to get no photos taken, sealed, then arranged for cremation.
This was before Anne Freeman could get there and that was deliberate. They knew. They knew what was coming. The Kennedys, I'm continuing, had little compassion for Carolyn and Lauren's family. John's sister Caroline and her husband Ed showed not the slightest remorse or kindness to Anne Freeman. She had lost two of her three daughters. Lauren's twin sister Lisa was now her sole surviving child.
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Chapter 5: How does the podcast analyze the cultural impact of the Kennedy family's narrative?
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when you use code Maureen at CowboyCholostrum.com slash Maureen. Now, here's a scene. Again, this never happened. Caroline Kennedy, I have been told directly by people who would know, is a raging bitch. She is. She's a raging bitch. And this scene never happened. Anne and Caroline never accidentally crossed paths at the Tribeca loft.
First of all, there are an army of people and lawyers and handlers who would make sure that that never happened. And Caroline never extended a single act of decency, let alone sympathy or empathy to this poor woman who her reckless, entitled, spoiled, idiot of a brother killed. Here we go. Some of the media are saying they crashed because Carolyn was getting her nails done. Delayed their takeoff.
Not that your brother wasn't equipped to fly at night and took off anyway, but that she held them back. Her vanity. Are you aware of that? Shakes her head no. I stopped reading the news. Well, I have nothing left to protect but their legacies. There are images of your brother beaming around the world on the cover of every newspaper and magazine.
Carolyn's photo is usually on the inside, and Lauren is practically a footnote, but she wasn't famous, so... I guess her face doesn't sell papers.
There is emotional truth in that scene and everything that Anne is saying. But again, Caroline never softened up and said, and they have Caroline here played by Grace Gummer. I'm sorry, she's not a great actress, not a great actress, saying, I know I seem remote and I could have done more to help Caroline and I didn't and I regret it. And then she starts weeping. Never happened, never happened.
And here's another thing that never happened. Caroline comes over to Anne, grabs her by the hand, and floats a compromise that, again, is shocking in its decency, which is never really exhibited by Kennedy's. Here we go.
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Chapter 6: What insights does the Chief Navy diver provide about the recovery mission?
So just before Love Story was about to premiere. Now, he said that he can speak about this because the military back then did not require them to sign NDAs for this assignment. And he's also like, I don't understand why Navy divers were called in for civilians. I still don't get it.
their orders from their superiors were not to talk to the press like and when they went out that night or at night like at bars like everyone would know they were like people from out of town and not tourists and so to watch out for like all the media people who are going to be blanketing those bars and like going hey what do you know what did you see
Um, but so anyway, he feels like he can speak about it now and that it's important to speak about it and thank God for Joshua Benjamins. Thank God. Here he relays what the NTSB investigator above the water said the minute they found the propeller and they can watch above the water. They're watching the ROV, those cameras down below as they find what they find. Here we go.
one thing that we do recall is when we pulled up the main main fuselage where it had the actual propeller still there the one ntsb representative that was on board ship with us seen every single piece and part of it clearly looked right at the propeller and he immediately almost knew Yeah, that plane was at full throttle when it was hitting the water. Just by the way, the shape, the bend.
This is their profession. They just know these looks to them. And that was his words alone. He goes, yep, he was at full throttle when he hit.
So much for the mild turbulence Ryan Murphy depicted in his season finale. So much for that romantic ta-da-ta in the cockpit. The cock pit, you know?
um ryan uh sorry joshua uh says the plane hit the water at about 120 miles per hour that's like hitting concrete uh he talks about the ntsb trying to assemble what was left of the broken wreckage of that plane in a warehouse he also talks about this is graphic but we have to talk about it he saw jfk jr's face smashed into the cockpit control panels from the ROV camera below.
One whole side of that plane was just shorn off. It was gone. The wings were gone. It was laying on its side. The back seats where Carolyn and Lauren had been seated were folded up, he said, like an old flip phone. So these bodies, the divers had to unfold the seats. No. And then they picked up big pieces of the plane and what was left of the bodies.
Now Joshua obviously feels a little bit more at liberty to talk about the real state of John Jr. 's body. And remember, in that first interview, he said some people say that John's legs were shoved up into his torso on impact. Now Joshua's going to tell you where he got that little talking point. Here we go.
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Chapter 7: What are the implications of the media's portrayal of the Kennedy family tragedies?
Savannah's going to go back and sit next to Craig on that set. Is she for fucking real? Craig, my man, you might be in danger. Deservedly so. Subject line, the nerve makes me feel like I found my table at the cafeteria. This warms my cold, dead heart, my friend. This is a troublemaker, Lisa, who has written before, Maureen. So glad that the nerve exists.
The nerve really does have a lane wide open for real talk on the culture. Agreed. Now she writes, I remember back when nutmeg Megan Markle was poised as the next best thing with her guest editing UK Vogue. And it was like, if you didn't like her, there was something wrong with you. Trust me, Lisa. I know this well. I was one of the first American journalists to write that.
I thought she was full of shit. You know what that got me? It got me called a racist. Okay. Or when Lena Dunham was supposed to be the savior for us weird, edgy punk girls who write, and if you didn't like her or Roxane Gay, sister, you are singing my song. You were a misogynist or you're fat phobic. I thought I was alone for not loving these people back in their heydays.
And now I see I wasn't indeed. I feel like I found my table at the cafeteria even if I watch alone. Knowing that there are so many of us who call out celebrity bullshit and are not just going to open our mouths to take what's being spoon-fed to us by Hollywood creeps gives me hope in this crazy, mixed-up world. Same, Lisa. I am so glad we have all found each other.
Troublemaker Elle in Paris, and she signs off much like our beloved Armando does. She is a self-described author slash bon vivant. slash dork in Paris. Hi, Maureen. Thank you to The Nerve for calling out one Justin Timberlake. I am glad that the culture seems to be waking up finally and realizing that his Mr. Nice Guy persona is a complete sham. Just my opinion.
In addition to the way he has exploited women like Britney and Janet Jackson, I agree with this opinion. The clips of homeless people used during his wedding were absolutely disgusting. I could not agree with you more. Jessica Biel should not be given a pass either. I could not agree with you more because troublemaker Damien writes, we've heard from him before.
You'll remember who he is when I get to the next part. Damien writes, if my significant other thought that this was way in any way amusing, I would be walking out the door, not up the aisle. Agreed. I think I mentioned before you did that I work as a solicitor, that's lawyer in the UK and drunk driving is based on my experience, one of the most selfish crimes you can commit.
One of the worst cases I had to litigate involved a 10-year-old boy killed by someone who got behind the wheel after a few glasses of wine. I will never forget how completely broken his parents were, and this Damien in London is why we are going all the fucking way in on Tiger fucking Woods. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it. Poor Tiger. Fuck out. Okay. Okay.
An interesting and fun diversion. Hi, Maureen. Thank you for keeping politics out of your show as best you can. Our pleasure. We want to be your oasis. It is a very dark and scary world out there, you know? At least we can do something about the cultural offenders that Hollywood and the media industrial complex try to prop up in front of us. We're already moving the needle, guys, as discussed.
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Chapter 8: How do listeners respond to the topics discussed in this episode?
She was covered in fleas and was sick with kennel cough. This six pound huggable ball of fur was with me through thick and thin. And I was hoping she would enter her 16th year, but she looked up at me the other day and said, I am sorry. It's time to go. I am one of your senior troublemakers and 80 years on earth brings many joys and losses. Losing Pearl was equally as wrenching as many others.
I cannot imagine ever getting as much love and devotion from another pet. as anyone who knew Pearl adored her. She wasn't a show dog, but she sure was a show girl. I have finally stopped weeping. Nancy, you belong to a very hallowed club of dog lovers here at The Nerve, and many of you write in when your beloved animals cross the rainbow bridge. I think of Mellie right now.
And she wrote in when she lost her beloved. So we are with you, Nancy. We are with you. You will get through this. And you gave Pearl Clearly a great life. What a gift. What a gift you gave that little girl. Dear Maureen, I highly recommend The Ghost and Mrs. Muir, not to be confused with the Vapid TV show. You know, I've never seen this film.
This is about Jean Tierney, who I love, and whose memoir, I'm slowly reading it because her life is extraordinary. This movie showcases Ms. Tierney's extraordinary beauty. She really looked like nobody else. And her talent for light comedy as well as her ability to break your heart. And she loves us talking about classic movies and says it's so important to remember them.
And I could not agree more. Final troublemaker email. We're going to get to it probably soon. couple of episodes, definitely this week. Cause we're out of time. We're out of time. We were going to do it in C block with another treat. So we just have to punt it to another show, but I promise you guys, cause it's too good. And this one will not stand alone. Okay.
It, this, this segment will involve our, our patron saint. Um, Hi, Maureen. She is digging the nerve. Thank you. An ex-New Yorker now in the California Bay Area, having lived in Queens and worked in the city for 20 years. So watching you just makes me so homesick. Listen, I'll just I'll make you feel a little bit better in New York right now. You're not missing much, okay?
Not sure if you saw on the NewYorkTimes.com, I did, troublemaker, H, I did. There is an article about Carol Radziwill in the style section full of name-dropping pretentiousness and self-righteous diatribes that she's sick of talking about JFK Jr. and Carolyn Bessette. Wow, lying much? I saw it. tore it out, texted Marlena immediately. And we're going to get into it.
And my favorite thing about this, number one, this really was a pretext for the times, which is getting a little nervy. I will give them credit to go in on her about like her friendship with Ghislaine Maxwell. It's amazing. We're going to talk about it. But the other great part of the piece is Carol's like, you know, once upon a time it fell to me. in some in substance, you know what I'm saying?
To protect the legacies of,
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