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Chapter 1: Could the CIA have poisoned England's chances in the 1970 World Cup?
For exclusive interviews, bonus episodes, ad-free listening, early access to series, first look at live show tickets, a weekly newsletter, and discounted books, join the Declassified Club at therestisclassified.com. Could a secret CIA team have conspired to destroy the chances of England's football team? And could that secret have been kept until now?
Or does it belong in the world of conspiracy theories? Well, welcome to The Rest Is Classified. I'm David McCloskey. And I'm Gordon Carrera.
And we are in the second and final part of our exploration of, as Gordon has written in my notes, one of the darkest claims we have ever looked at on the show, which is the idea that the Central Intelligence Agency might have poisoned, might have poisoned Gordon. England's goalkeeper during the 1970 World Cup.
That's right. I mean, what an allegation. It is. Of all the things we've looked at, this is amongst the most serious and the darkest. But we are looking at this issue of whether it is indeed possible that during the 1970 World Cup, England's heroic goalkeeper, Gordon Banks, could have been
somehow poisoned by someone else when he fell ill after a quote-unquote quiet beer in his hotel room at the Guadalajara Hilton before a big game which led to him not playing, England falling to a dramatic defeat after some goalkeeping errors, it's said, by his stand-in, dashing the hopes of a nation but increasing the political popularity of
of a repressive Brazilian dictatorship, which, as we've heard, the CIA might have at least plausibly had the motive to want to support. That is the theory. And with us again to explore this idea, we have Gabriel Gatehouse, presenter of Foul Play, an audible podcast, but available wherever you get your podcasts, exploring this idea the CIA might have been behind all of this. Welcome, Gabriel.
Hello. Good to be with you again.
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Chapter 2: What evidence supports the theory of a CIA conspiracy?
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So, Gabriel, let's explore a little bit what the real evidential chain is for this claim. What made you think that there could be something to this other than it just being a kind of idea?
Yeah, I mean, look, when I first heard it, Gordon, I thought this is palpable nonsense. It's got to be nonsense, right? It's got the whiff of conspiracy theory all over it. The thing that first made me think, hold on a second, maybe there is something to this, is the alleged source of the story, right? So as you know, Gordon, especially when you're dealing with the world of intelligentsia,
Most of the time you don't get to documentary evidence and really the quality of your sourcing is everything. So my first question when I started looking into this, I was like, let's see if this is even credible enough to investigate. My first question was, who is the source? So Ed, Gordon Banks' grandson who brought it to me, had heard it from a guy who was a family friend who had read it.
It's a chain that goes, he heard it from him, you heard it from him, you heard it from him. But it ends up, after four links in the chain...
with a very senior serving US senator for the state of Missouri, who was on the Senate Armed Services and Foreign Relations Committees, and who, in the 1960s and 70s, not only received briefings from the CIA, but was also personally close to successive CIA directors, but particularly Richard Helms. who was director of the CIA from 1966 to 1973, so at the time of the 1970 World Cup in Mexico.
When I saw that, I was like, OK, this is more than just some bloke heard it in a pub, right? And could be true, could not be true. The problem is the source is dead, right? The name of the senator is Stuart Symington, senator from Missouri from 1952 to 1976. 24 years. He contested the Democratic presidential nomination in 1960, but it went to John F. Kennedy instead.
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Chapter 3: How credible is the sourcing chain behind the poisoning claim?
about his time as Mexico City Station. And when he dies unexpectedly in 1971, the first thing the CIA does is they send their chief of counterintelligence, James Angleton, to Mexico City to wrestle this manuscript out of the hands of Winston Scott's shell-shocked widow. So this... I figured, you know, this guy...
was in charge, if somebody from the CIA had poisoned an English goalkeeper, he probably knew about it. Well, maybe he wrote about it in his memoir. And so a whole part of the podcast is us trying to get hold of this document, which has been confiscated by the CIA to see if there's any clues in there.
We talked in our mini series for club members on the different theories behind the JFK assassination, exactly about this point, Gabriel, which was
The CIA is, you know, well, in particular, that series looking at the CIA's photo surveillance operation at the Soviet and Cuban embassies in Mexico City, which was which was quite extensive and had led Wynn Scott and his team to probably don't want to get into all the detail here, but probably, as you say, to have.
some sense that Lee Harvey Oswald had actually threatened Kennedy during his little stay in Mexico City before he goes back to Dallas. So I think we're starting to get the sense of the different pieces here, which is, I think I want to come back to motive because I think that is the point where I am not yet convinced.
But we have the means and the CIA certainly with the salmonella and the CIA certainly if it had wanted to. could have had the opportunity through Winscott's CIA networks in Mexico in 1970.
So let's take a break there. When we come back, let's look at also the issue of whether we do see evidence of spy services interfering in some of these sporting tournaments and some of the interesting evidence of that happening over the years, including... in World Cups as well as our final thoughts on whether this theory about Gordon Banks does stack up or not. See you after the break.
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It's all very exciting, Gordon. And if you haven't got anything yet for your father, and if you're on speaking terms, we have an incredible gift idea for you.
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Chapter 4: What methods could the CIA have used to poison Gordon Banks?
What makes you separate?
I don't know anymore. I don't know anymore. These days, I'm like the last believer in that there might be something to it, clearly, who thinks the Americans wouldn't dare do it to us. But now, faced with you two, I'm like, oh, okay. I give up.
Well, Gabriel, I think that might be a suitable place to end it with me giving up on the special relationship in the face of the circumstantial but mounting evidence of a CIA plot.
But there's obviously been no tension on the special relationship because of it, right? I mean, maybe now that Gabriel's done this fine podcast, Foul Play, there will be some tension, but we're already thinking about invading Greenland. So it's probably going to be overshadowed by much larger dynamics.
Because otherwise this would be, you know, poisoning Gordon Banks is about a bigger claim as you can get. I mean, my namesake. So this is a big deal.
That for me is the biggest revelation, Gordon, is that you are named after Gordon Banks. And I have a reaction. I have a reaction from his grandson who says, I don't want to misquote him, who says, ha, ha, ha, ha, no way.
Well, there you go. Thank you, Gabriel, for joining us. And once again, I want to commend to all of our listeners the incredible podcast Foul Play, which Gabriel has made. It is an audible podcast. I believe it is available worldwide. wherever you get your podcasts, would heartily commend that to listeners.
Yes, it is a great series from Gabriel. I've already listened to it all the way through. Next time on The Rest is Classified, we're going to start a series on Alexander Litvinenko, skipping forward to 2006, this Russian FSB officer who comes to London and who is killed and the question of who is behind it. and whether it is indeed Vladimir Putin.
And for club members, we've got something very special. We've got some terrific interviews with people directly involved in that story, including the police officer who led the investigation and Marina Litvinenko, the widow of Alexander Litvinenko. So do join us.
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