573. Burnham and Carney vs. Trump, and the Diana Dispute
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What is the United Nations’ role in today’s global order?
We're recording this as world leaders gather now in New York for the United Nations General Assembly. Andy Burnham, the British Prime Minister, is preparing for his very first face-to-face meeting with Donald Trump, and across Europe, governments are confronting Russian sabotage. In Germany, the far right and the far left have just dominated elections. And countries like Canada are looking for new alliances as the old Atlantic order becomes less certain. And at the center of all this, sits the United Nations, an institution created for a very different world. For eighty years, we've talked about a rules-based international order. But what happens When the rules are no longer agreed, the great powers no longer trust each other, and America itself is questioning the system it once underwrote.
So what is the United Nations actually for now? What should it become? And if the old order is disappearing, what institutions can still keep the peace? This episode is powered by few.
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Welcome to the Rest of Politics with me, Alistair Campbell. And me, Rory Stewart. So, Rory, we're going to talk a lot about the UN. Andy Burnham's there today, lots of world league is there. He's got his first sort of big meeting with Trump. But also, what's the UN for? Is it functional? What's its future look like? Who's gonna lead it after Guterres, of whom you're not a massive fan? And we're also going to talk about uh whether you like it or not, the Charles Spencer attack upon your friend the King. And I'll tell you what I mean by that. I watched Guterres talking about his priorities for the summit, for the Ungar, and he said He set out three runaway artificial intelligence. Climate change and growing inequalities.
Okay. And he said these were existential threats, plug Ferrari's new miniseries. And he then said, and we need to work hard towards peace in the Middle East and ending the war in Ukraine. And as he said those five things, I thought, yeah, he's probably right, but the UN's voice in that is well, it's sort of it's it's I can't even use the word weak. It's like What is it? Where is it? Where is the UN place in all this? And of course we can all criticize, as you and I do, Donald Trump's endless failures on different specific policy areas. But he set the strategic goal to weaken the United Nations and he's done it. And it's with consequences.
Yeah. I think the first thing is uh US weakened it in a very straightforward way. Money. Yeah. And many of these agencies received almost half their funding from the US. So when the US stopped its funding, there was complete crisis in all these agencies. And they still owe Up to n nearly four billion. Right. Whereas the Chinese have actually paid their dues. Right. And owing four billion, which one imagines under Trump they're not going to pay, he's not famous for paying his debts, is he? And then you've introduced the second point, which is of course as the US contribution goes down, the contribution of China The other major economy in the world becomes more and more important. And raises the question of what the UN's for.
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