Show notes
This podcast hit paid subscribers’ inboxes on Nov. 23. It dropped for free subscribers on Nov. 30. To receive future episodes as soon as they’re live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:What is this?Every autumn, ski associations and most of the large pass coalitions host media events in New York City. They do this because a) NYC is the media capital of the world; b) the city is a lot of fun; and, c) sometimes mountain folks like something different too, just like us city folks (meaning me), like to get to the mountains as much as possible. But I spend all winter traveling the country in search of ski areas of all sizes and varieties. This is the one time of year skiing comes to me. And it’s pretty cool.One of the associations that consistently hosts an NYC event is Ski Utah. This year, they set up at the Arlo Soho, a chic Manhattan hotel. Longtime President Nathan Rafferty asked if I would be interested in setting up an interview station, talking to resort reps, and stringing them together into a podcast. It was a terrific idea, so here you go.Who* Nathan Rafferty, President of Ski Utah* Sara Huey, Senior Manager of Communications at Park City Mountain Resort* Sarah Sherman, Communications Manager at Snowbird* Nick Como, VP of Marketing at Sundance* Rosie O’Grady, President and Innkeeper of Alta Lodge* Jessica Turner, PR Manager for Go Heber Valley* Taylor Hartman, Director of Marketing and Communications at Visit Ogden* Brooks Rowe, Brand Manager at Snowbasin* Riley Elliott, Communications Specialist at Deer Valley* Andria Huskinson, Communications and PR Manager at Solitude* Anna Loughridge, PR Manager for Visit Utah* Courtney Ryan, Communications Manager for Visit Park City* Ryan Mack, VP of Communications for Visit Salt LakeRecorded onOctober 3, 2024About Ski UtahMost large ski states have a statewide trade group that represents its ski areas’ interests. One of the best of these is Ski Utah, which is armed with a large staff, a generous budget, and some pretty good freaking skiing to promote (Buckskin, Utah Olympic Park, and Wasatch Peaks Ranch are not members of Ski Utah):What we talked aboutSKI UTAHTopicsWhy NYC; the Olympics return to Utah; why the state is such a great place to host the games (besides, you know, the awesome skiing); where we could potentially see future ski area development in Utah; Pow Mow’s shift toward public-private hybrid; Deer Valley’s expansion and ongoing snowboard ban; and the proposed LCC Gondola – “Little Cottonwood Canyon is not a great place for rubber-wheeled vehicles.”On Utah skier visits and population growth over timeOn chairlifts planned in Utah over the next three yearsUtah is on a chairlift-building binge, with the majority slated for Deer Valley’s massive expansion (11) and Powder Mountain (4 this year; 1 in 2025). But Snowbird (Wilbere quad), Park City (Sunrise Gondola), and Snowbasin (Becker high-speed quad) are also scheduled to install new machines this year or next. The private Wasatch Peaks Ranch will also add two lifts (a gondola and a high-speed quad) this year. And Sundance is likely to install what resort officials refer to as the “Flathead lift” some time within the next two years. The best place to track scheduled lift installations is Lift Blog’s new lifts databases for 2024, 2025, and 2026.On expansion potential at Brian Head and Nordic ValleyUtah’s two largest expansion opportunities are at Brian Head and Nordic Valley, both operated by Mountain Capital Partners. Here’s Brian Head today:The masterplan could blow out the borders - the existing ski area is in the lower-right-hand corner:And here’s Nordic Valley:And the masterplan, which could supersize the ski area to 3,000-ish acres. The small green blob represents part of the existing ski area, though this plan predates the six-pack installation in 2020:PARK CITY MOUNTAIN RESORTStats: 3,226 vertical feet | 7,300 skiable acres | 355 inches average annual snowfallTopicsSnowmaking upgrades; the forthcoming Sunrise Gondola on the Canyons side; why this gondola didn’t face the opposition that Park City’s last lift upgrades did; Olympic buzz in Park City; and which events PCMR could host in the 2034 Olympics.On the Great Lift Shutdown of 2022Long story short: Vail tried to upgrade two lifts in Park City a couple of years ago. Locals got mad. The lifts went to Whistler. Here’s the longer version:More Park City Mountain ResortSNOWBIRDStats: 3,240 vertical feet | 2,500 skiable acres | 500 inches average annual snowfallTopicsThe new Wilbere lift; why Snowbird shifted the chairlift line; the upside of abandoning the old liftline; riding on top of the new tram; and more LCC gondola talk.On the new Wilbere lift alignmentHere’s where the new Wilbere lift sits (right) in comparison to the old lift (left):On inter-lodgeIf you happen to be at the top of Little Cottonwood Canyon when avalanche danger spikes, you may be subject to something called “inter-lodge.” Which means you stay in whatever building you’re in, with no option to leave. It’s scary and thrilling all at once.Inter-lodge can last anywhere from under an hour to several days.On the LCC gondola and phase-in planAnother long story short: UDOT wants to build a gondola up Little Cottonwood Canyon. A lot of people would prefer to spend four hours driving seven miles to the ski areas. Here’s a summary of UDOT’s chosen configuration:As multiple lawsuits seeking to shut the project down work through the courts, UDOT has outlined a phased traffic-mitigation approach:More SnowbirdSUNDANCE Stats: 2,150 vertical feet | 450 skiable acres | 300 inches average annual snowfallTopicsThe importance of NYC to the wider skiing world; how the Wildwood terrain helped evolve Sundance; Epkon refugees headed south; parking improvements; options for the coming Flathead terrain expansion; and potential lift switcheroos. More SundanceSundance’s new owners have been rapidly modernizing this once-dusty ski area, replacing most of the lifts, expanding terrain, and adding parking. I talked through the grand arc of these changes with the mountain’s GM, Chad Linebaugh, a couple of years ago:ALTA LODGEAlta stats: 3,240 vertical feet | 2,500 skiable acres | 500 inches average annual snowfallTopics65 years of Levitt family ownership; Alta’s five lodges; inter-lodge; how Alta has kept its old-school spirit even as it’s modernized; and an upcoming women’s ski event. On Alta’s lift evolutionIt wasn’t so long ago that Alta was known for its pokey lift fleet. As recently as the late ‘90s, the mountain was a chutes-and-ladders powder playground:Bit by bit, Alta consolidated and updated its antique lift fleet, beginning with the Sugarloaf high-speed quad in 2001. The two-stage Collins high-speed quad arrived three years later, replacing the legacy Collins double and Germania triple lines. The Supreme high-speed quad similarly displaced the old Supreme triple and Cecret double in 2017, and the Sunnyside sixer replaced the Albion double and Sunnyside high-speed triple in 2022. As of 2024, the only clunker left, aside from the short hotel lifts and the long transfer tow, is the Wildcat double.GO HEBER VALLEYTopicsWhy Heber Valley makes sense as a place to crash on a ski trip; walkable sections of Heber; ease of access to Deer Valley; and elevation.VISIT OGDENConsidering “untamed and untouched” Ogden as ski town; “it’s like skiing in 2005”; Pow Mow, Snowbasin; accessing the mountains from Ogden; Pow Mow’s partial privatization; art on the mountain; and Nordic Valley as locals’ bump. On Powder Mountain size claimsPow Mow has long claimed 8,000-ish acres of terrain, which would make it the largest ski area in the United States. I typically only count lift-served skiable acreage, however, bringing the mountain down to a more average-for-the-Wasatch 3,000-ish acres. A new lift in Wolf Canyon next year will add another 900 lift-served acres (shaded with stripes on the right-hand side below).On Nordic Valley’s fire and the broken Apollo liftLast December, Nordic Valley’s Apollo chairlift, a 1970 Hall double, fell over dead, isolating the mountain’s glorious expansion from the base area. The next month, a fire chewed up the baselodge, a historic haybarn left over from the property’s ranching days. Owner MCP renovated the chairlift over the summer, but Nordic will operate out of “temporary structures,” GM Pascal Begin told KSL.com in June, until they can build a new baselodge, which could be 2026 or ’27.SNOWBASINStats: 3,015 vertical feet | 3,000 skiable acres | 300 inches average annual snowfallTopicsBreaking down the coming Becker lift upgrade; why Becker before Porcupine; last year’s DeMoisy six-pack installation; where is everyone?; where to ski at Snowbasin; the 2034 Olympics plan; when will on-mountain lodging arrive?; and RFID.More SnowbasinDEER VALLEYStats: 3,040 vertical feet | 2,342 skiable acres | 300 inches average annual snowfallTopicsMassive expansion; avoiding Park City; and snowmaking in the Wasatch Back.On Expanded ExcellenceDeer Valley’s expansion plans are insane. Here’s a summary:More Deer ValleySOLITUDEStats: 2,030 vertical feet | 1,200 skiable acres | 500 inches average annual snowfallTopicsAlterra; Big versus Little Cottonwood Canyons; and Alta.More SolitudeVISIT UTAHTopicsWatching the state’s population explode; the Olympics; comparing 2002 to 2034; RIP three percent beer; potential infrastructure upgrades to prepare for the Olympics; and SLC airport upgrades.VISIT PARK CITYTopicsPark City 101; Main Street; the National Ability Center; mining history everywhere; Deer Valley’s trail names; Silver to Slopes at Park City; Deer Valley’s East Village; public transit evolution; Park City Mountain Resort lift drama; paid parking; and why “you don’t need a car” in Park City.On Silver to SlopesThe twice-daily guided ski tour of on-mountain mining relics that we discuss on the podcast is free. Details here.On Park City and Deer Valley’s shared borderPark City Mountain Resort and Deer Valley share a border, but you are forbidden to cross it, on penalty of death.* Alta and Snowbird share a crossable border, as do Solitude and Brighton. All four have different operators. I’m not sure why PCMR and Deer Valley can’t figure this one out.*This is not true.^^Though actually it might be true.VISIT SALT LAKETopicsThe easiest ski access in the world; why stay in SLC during a ski trip; walkable downtown; free transit; accessing the ski areas without a car; Olympic buzz; and Olympic events outside of the ski areas.What I got wrong* I said that former mayor Michael Bloomberg tried to bring the Olympics to NYC “around 2005 or 2006.” The city’s bid was for the 2012 Summer Olympics (ultimately held in London). I also said that local opposition shut down the bid, but I confused that with the proposed stadium on what is now Manhattan’s Hudson Yards development.* I said you had to drive through Park City to access Deer Valley, but the ski area has long maintained a small parking lot at the base of the Jordanelle Gondola off of US 40.The robots aren’t readyEveryone keeps telling me that the robots will eat our souls, but every time I try to use them, they botch something that no human would ever miss. In this case, I tried using my editing program’s AI to chop out the dead space and “ums,” and proceeded to lose bits of the conversation that in some cases confuse the narrative. So it sounds a little choppy in places. You can blame the robots. Or me for not re-doing the edit once I figured out what was happening.The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 78/100 in 2024, and number 578 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe