I want to be upfront with you — this conversation goes some places that not every podcast will go.David Sutcliffe is a somatic therapist, men's work facilitator, and former Hollywood actor who has made a career out of sitting with the men most people won't. He's interviewed Andrew Tate. He's sat across from Justin Waller. He's been in rooms where men have admitted things most of us can't even say out loud. And he keeps showing up — not because he's reckless, but because he genuinely believes that the truth lives in the places we've decided are off limits.This is his second time on the podcast, and we didn't hold back.We talk about the Heyoka — the sacred provocateur in Lakota tradition — and why men like Tate, Kanye, and Trump might be playing a role in the culture that nobody wants to admit is necessary. We get into transference, and why any man who wants to lead — in his home, his business, his community — needs to understand what it is and how it works. We talk about liberation, what it actually means, and why David says it comes down to one thing: presence.And then the conversation goes where it goes. Shadow. Sexuality. The complexity of human nature. The parts of men that don't fit into a clean narrative about good guys and bad guys. David doesn't flinch, and neither did I.As I mentioned at the top of the episode — this one gets into some territory that warrants a heads up. If you made it this far, you already know what you're signing up for.This is the conversation we're not supposed to be having. That's exactly why we had it.——Ready to go deeper?Men, join us in The UNcivilized Nation——Listen to David's first appearance on the podcastConnect with David——Connect with Traver: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/traverboehm Substack: https://traverboehm.substack.com Website: https://www.manuncivilized.com––Chapter List00:00 Who Is David Sutcliffe02:08 The Role of Controversial Figures in Culture10:05 Navigating Personal Pain and Public Perception12:20 The Cost of Staying in Your Mask16:29 Why Being Misunderstood Sets You Free20:33 Defining Transference22:32 What Liberation Actually Looks Like29:46 Relationship as Spiritual Practice33:19 Spiritual Practices and Personal Growth36:57 The Collective Shadow Coming to the Surface46:30 Justice, Punishment, and the Complexity of Human Nature56:15 Wrap Up & Where to Find David

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.

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