Show notes
Nicholas Gaudern, CTO at PowerCurve, discusses the growing focus on data-driven insights in wind turbine operations, emphasizing the importance of laser scans, digital twins, and aerodynamic add-ons for enhancing efficiency and performance.
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Allen Hall: Nicholas, welcome back to the podcast. Hi. Thanks Allen. Good to see you again. There's a lot going on in wind right now. Obviously the elections that happy the United States are changing the way that a lot of US based operators are thinking about their turbines and, and particularly their blades.
I've noticed over the last, even just couple of weeks that. Operators and the engineers are paying more attention to what they're actually getting on site.
Nicholas Gaudern: Yes.
Allen Hall: Instead of, uh, the sort of the full service agreement where, hey, they're under warranty for two years, I don't really need to do anything for a little while approach.
That's changing into, I want to know what arrives on site, what am I getting and what problems are there with these particular blades that I may not know about because they're new to me. Even though these blades, there may be thousands of these blades out in service. Mm-hmm. Me, my company doesn't know.
Yep. How they operate. How they perform, particularly at this, this new site, I'm Repowering or, [00:01:00] or building new. That is a complete shift. From where it was a year ago, two years ago, five years ago. Yeah. And I think the biggest performance piece that people are looking at is aerodynamics, and I'm trying to understand how these blades perform, how they move.
Yes. What kind of loads there are, what kind I expect over the next year or two. And I think they're just becoming now aware of maybe I need to have a game plan.
Nicholas Gaudern: Mm-hmm.
Allen Hall: And I, and that's where power curve comes in, is like in the sense of have a king plan. Understand what these plates are all about. Yeah, yeah.
And try to characterize 'em early rather than later.
Nicholas Gaudern: Yeah, exactly. I think there's been an increased focus on, on data and for operators, as you say, to understand more what they're getting and not necessarily relying on just what they're told. So, uh, I think a nice case study of that is last year we were helping a customer to build a, a digital twin.
Uh, of one of their turbine models that they, that they purchased. So what that involved [00:02:00] is, uh, going to site, doing a laser scan of a blade, understanding geometry, helping them to build up some aerodynamic and structural models of that blade. So then that customer was going to build an AEL model themselves of that turbine so that they could run load calculations.
They could look at, uh, site specific, uh, changes that could be relevant to that turbine's configuration or how they operated it. And this isn't really something that you saw a lot of, uh, a few years ago, but I think it's great that operators, particularly when they have a larger engineering capacity, are starting to get into that game.
Uh, and it's tough because it's a lot of what the OEMs do, it's their kind of specialist knowledge, but there's a lot of smart people out there. Uh, there's a lot of companies you can work with to help gather that data and build these products up.
Allen Hall: The OEMs right now are. Lowering the number of engineers.
Nicholas Gaudern: Mm-hmm.
Allen Hall: Staff reductions. Yeah. Uh, so getting a hold of somebody on the engineering staff, particularly with aerodynamics, can be quite hard. Yes. And in fact, I've talked to [00:03:00] some smaller operators that can't get access to those people at all.
Nicholas Gaudern: No, no. We, we get told that a lot that, um, there's, there's customers calling OEMs and they, yeah.
They can't, they can't speak to anyone who really understands that the issues that they're facing. But free now we, we have contact with a lot of OEMs. I would say that we have more aerodynamicists and power curve than some OEMs have now. Oh, that's true. And that's quite, that's true. Surprising. You know.
Um, so it does mean that I think from a customer support perspective, it is harder for the OEMs to take on some of those really detailed or nuanced questions that an operator may have.
Allen Hall: Right. Operators are getting smarter.
Nicholas Gaudern: Yep.
Allen Hall: And asking more pointed questions, not generic questions anymore. Uh, we've had, uh, junker on the podcast and I, when I ran into her last summer, she was basically saying that like you, you're talking to operators now that are getting smarter about what they're doing.
Yes. They're asking more pointed questions. The OEMs can't respond. So now what do you do? Yeah, that's, that's the Global Blade Group.
Nicholas Gaudern: Yeah, exactly.
Allen Hall: [00:04:00] Perspective, right? Where everybody's starting to pool the resources together. I think that's an
Nicholas Gaudern: absolutely great initiative. I mean, it's something that's been going along in various forms for a few years now, but um, now big it has joined Stack rt.
It's kind of been relaunched in, in this new form that you were discussing with us. So, um, we are really excited to be part of that, I think kind of the way, uh. Our role sits within the group. We're still working on, on the details, but we're definitely gonna be part of that group in helping to, to share knowledge.
So the aim is that we will help, uh, educate basically to, to raise discussion points, to, to lead forums with operators about how they can understand their aerodynamics better, how they can ask more relevant questions of the OEM. So I think that's what a lot this is about, just asking the right questions.
I think sometimes operators can feel a little bit, uh, blind. Uh, as to the best way to navigate a problem, but by knowledge sharing within the Blades group with other forums, um, I think that's gonna make that a lot easier for everyone.
Allen Hall: And you've been tapped as [00:05:00] the lead of the aerodynamics group within the Global Blade
Nicholas Gaudern: Group?
Yes. Yep, yep, that's, that's correct. Um, we haven't had a, a kickoff yet as such, but that will hopefully happen in the next couple of months. But yeah, the idea is that power curve will kind of. Lead that knowledge sharing around the aerodynamic subject.
Allen Hall: Yes. So if you haven't joined the Global Blade Group, it's free.
Yep. If you work for an operator, you can just join it and you should. So get somebody on your staff to sign up to get ahold of Burger and get going with that, because then you can tap into all the resources that they have. Them being, uh, the most recent one is the leading edge protection campaign that was just summarized, uh, a couple of weeks ago.
So that data set is out there and you want to have access to that. Mm-hmm. But I think more importantly, as the group goes forward now and has been emboldened again, the aerodynamic piece is the missing link for most operators. Yeah, it is.
Nicholas Gaudern: And it's, it's often an area that is, um, hasn't had as much attention historically.
Uh, there's just not so many engineers out there with that background. You know, it's, um, [00:06:00] I wouldn't say it's any more or less hard than lots of other of the complex subjects within a wind turbine. There's just, there's fewer people, uh, who, who know the same, uh, level of, um, stuff.
Allen Hall: Yeah. And there're being, those resources are being, uh, taxed quite heavily at the minute, uh, with all the activity it happen in the OEMs.
Now, as operators, uh, start to receive newer blades and you see. OEMs obviously moving to bigger turbines and to specific models, so there's actually fewer varieties of blades than there were a couple years ago, but there's still quite a number of blades out there. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So you, you're going to get generally a more generic blade type at your specific wind site?
Nicholas Gaudern: Yeah, quite possibly.
Allen Hall: Yeah. I, I think especially ge renova is, is gonna be driving down to a, a limited set of blades and a limited set of turbines. So they're gonna be trying to apply that turbine. More globally than they have in the past, instead of tailoring a specific set of blades vest is, it's gonna do something very similar, I think.
Mm-hmm. Uh, and in that mode, [00:07:00] if you're an operator and you're receiving these blades, you don't really understand what's about to happen unless you do your homework ahead of time. And I think that's where the opportunity lies today to do something really inexpensive and smart up front. To understand what's likely to happen.
Yeah.
Nicholas Gaudern: Yeah, exactly. And I think that all starts with, um, as we talked about, gathering good data, whether that be a laser scan or detailed photographs or measurements or NDT, uh, putting some sensors in the blade, some CMS equipment. I think all of that stuff to help really build up that knowledge base early.
To help start planning for future o and m, uh, operations? Yeah,
Allen Hall: so the simple one as blades come on site is to do a laser scan.
Nicholas Gaudern: Mm. Yep. And that takes how long? A few hours. And, and it's much easier on the ground than it is a tower as well. And then you can use that full kinds of things. Yes. It's very useful to do aerodynamic studies on.
But then, uh, other stuff that might not seem so [00:08:00] exciting,