Chapter 1: What are Jessi and Jordan's reflections on their relationship?
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It's that time of year from family gatherings around a warm fireplace to catching up over your favorite peppermint mocha. Together is the best place to be. This episode is sponsored by Starbucks.
I have to say, every time I drink a peppermint mocha around the holidays, it always reminds me of when my family, after Thanksgiving, the Friday after Thanksgiving, we always go downtown Savannah. We walk the little Riverside Market. There's always a Starbucks there. Grab our drinks. Yeah, you get your hot peppermint mocha. It's cold. You're cozy. You're with family. It's fun.
It's one of my favorite traditions.
Delicioso. It tastes like Christmas.
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Chapter 2: How has Jordan changed since the events of Season 3?
And then she had watched them and I asked her how it was. And after she had watched it back, she's like, hey, I think that we should watch it together. And I was like, okay. And she's like, and if you feel in, you know, any sort of way, you know, we can stop or whatever it might be. And we watched it all the way through. It was emotional, man.
Having to relive that and see some of the things firsthand. The trip to St. George and hyper-focusing on specific details that went down and having to see myself react the way that I did to certain things. It's hurtful. It's painful to see yourself in that light and it's painful to see the most important person in your life relive those moments too.
Specifically, because obviously we had a chance to talk to Jesse and Nellie spoke with Jesse and, you know, throughout the season and obviously a part of this conversation, Jesse was pretty forthcoming about obviously your guys' relationship, not just what we saw in season three, but everything leading up.
to that and you know jesse has said that everything that she said to us she you know you guys have she said to you you guys have communicated but she obviously used some pretty direct language in in describing your treatment towards Jesse. Watching season three back, how eye-opening was it to you in terms of how you've treated Jesse throughout your relationship?
Looking back and watching that back, it was really eye-opening to see that. And obviously when we are filming, we record hundreds of hours and very, very little makes the cut. There were a lot of scenes that didn't make the cut that
you know honestly we're pretty bad you know to be forthcoming and about your behavior oh yeah yeah yeah and through the entirety of filming season two i i we were going through all of this and i was doing we were both doing everything we could to keep a lid on it
And I felt like I was dying inside because I couldn't talk to anyone about this because the risk of it getting out was something I was completely petrified of. And I think she was petrified of it as well.
Were you more worried of it getting out and hearing about what the public had to say about your relationship or you, or was it more hurtful for what Jesse did?
Both. I think during that six months, I was probably coming at it from more of a selfish standpoint. I think that I was so embarrassed and felt a lot of shame if people knew what my wife had done. And I wasn't even worried about what I had done to put her in a place where she felt that that was a need. Does that make sense? Not a need, or maybe... Drove her to a state of mind.
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Chapter 3: What regrets does Jordan have about his past actions?
And she's been working on those, those things. Like what? Oh, um, one of the things I'm sure, I hope she talked to you guys about and I hope I don't get in trouble for this, but you know, she has a bad people pleasing problem.
And I think you guys see that a lot throughout the show, you know, where, you know, you see like what Demi did to her and she continued to let her back in after horrible things. And I think that people pleasing can, can definitely cause like there's the, she'll, she'll people please someone for so long before, you know, they'll burn her.
And I think that's kind of what, what you guys have seen, like meaning like some, you know, other relationships or other things going on might be more important than what really matters. And that's your family, you know?
Sure. I mean, I think a lot of people struggle with people pleasing. I guess my question to you is let's say Jesse required some time to work on that. Maybe it took a couple years to really get out of that, that kind of pattern of worrying about what people are thinking. Are you still capable of not justifying reacting to Jesse in the ways that you've reacted in the past?
I think that I have done an excellent job and I'm very proud of the progress that I've made. And I would say that Jesse is also proud of the progress that I've made. Yeah, she mentioned as much.
You mentioned a lot of times in this season that you felt very emasculated. What does masculinity mean to you and what did you mean by that?
Maybe that was maybe I think it's still the right thought, but I think it was just the embarrassment. I think that like what happened, how it happened, who it happened with is at the time I was just I was mortified. I think that I thought about it in a way that was like, well, what does that mean? How does that make me look as a man? That's what I meant by the emasculated feeling, right?
I wasn't so worried in the moment about what I had done to lead to that point. It was just selfishness, right? So that's what I meant about being emasculated.
Do you think you felt emasculated in your relationship with Jesse prior to the emotional affair?
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Chapter 4: How do Jessi and Jordan discuss their emotional struggles?
But my understanding of that was... what are you going to tell our kids when they see this one day? Cause they will, if I remember it correctly.
Something like that. And then she's like, well, we'll sit down and talk to them. And that seemed to not be an answer you liked. You were like, well, you're going to tell them that you cheated on me. Well, right.
And maybe that was just the cut because what I said was, what are you going to tell them that you cheated on me? And then you went to go to a lie detector with the guy you had an affair with. Like in that moment, like I stand by that being, um, I wish that that didn't happen. Right. I wish that that, I think it was a poor choice. Jesse wasn't present during that.
I mean, you could see it on her face. What do you mean by present? She was numb. She wasn't even there. No one was home.
Does that make you empathize with her more or less?
More. Okay. I think that's what was so painful watching it back was it was like knock, knock, no one's home. It was, it was that it was sad. It was sad on multiple fronts. It was sad on that front. And then I'm also sad for myself too.
Okay. And I guess going forward, and we'll bring Jesse and Nali in here in just a few minutes, but I guess before we do, I mean, what do you hope as the audience watches back, what do you hope that they think of you coming out of this interview? And what do you want them to know about you as a man and your ability to be a partner towards Jesse going forward?
Well, I hope that my presence here today shows that I'm willing to take accountability and that you can make mistakes and you can grow from them and you don't necessarily have to be perfect, but if you're continuing to work, I think that's kind of genuinely what's made Jesse and I have, I don't want to call it success, but the only reason that we're in the place that we're at today is because
of continuing to work on ourselves. And in turn, not only does working on ourselves make us better, but we're working on our relationship. So I think the thing that I would say if I wanted people to think about me in a certain way is that I'm just like you. I make mistakes and I try to grow from them. And I hope that that resonates with someone. That's the whole point of me coming today.
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Chapter 5: What impact has therapy had on Jessi and Jordan's relationship?
I came and told you. Right, right. No, no. I'm sorry. You did tell me?
Yes.
Okay. Now I remember that.
I didn't let you find out online. What was your reaction?
I'm going to be honest, I don't remember that reaction. I remember seeing... I remember the phone call I had with you after that clip. I remember calling you and just being absolutely irate. Pissed. Because I felt like the question was answered really unfairly. At the time, I was actually pissed off that the question was asked the way that it was. And the response more so, honestly, at the time.
Just because I feel like, again, like... what I've learned in therapy is just like, you always want to talk about your partner or even the parent of your child with the utmost respect. Right. And you know what, I want my daughter to be with someone who acted and treated them the way they did. No, but that was, you know, that's just one piece, right?
Like I would have loved some, you married me, you know, like we had multiple kids together. You, you chose me and I would have loved to have had some like, you know, context.
Well, the thing is, at the time, I couldn't give context because season three hadn't, you know, come out yet. But I think for me, when I hear Jordan say that is I was kind of I understand him being upset for sure. But I was kind of hoping it would make him like wake up a little and be like, oh, like do I want my daughter to be with someone like that?
And I think over time you've seen that in therapy, but also I think a point that you're making is interesting that you don't speak about the parent of your child that way, but you also spoke to the parent of your children a certain way for a long time behind closed doors. So yeah, you know, like it kind of takes two to tango.
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Chapter 6: How do Jessi and Jordan navigate public perceptions of their relationship?
Do you remember it that way? And why did you choose to go about it that way rather than kind of bringing him into the fold?
So to be honest, I would love if he could be a part of it, but my family just would not allow it to be honest. Like Jordan can be very controlling and very opinionated. There's been a few times he's done little things for us and he comes in and tries to change everything. And they were like, this is our business. Like,
you're aware of this like yeah you know they we're talking about years old stuff but yeah no yeah but like that's really what happened is he would try to help out with things but then he would try to change it or do it his way or give us feedback that we didn't necessarily need and I think it all came from a good place of like him wanting to help but he has a way of it coming across as controlling and harsh at times so my family truly was like we don't want him involved like this is our thing so it just kind of got to that point where I had to say like sorry it has to be separate
are you interested in like showing Jesse's family that you're capable of knowing your role when it comes to participating with the family business? I've done that now for years.
So it's, it's, that may have been, they don't seem to feel that way. Well, no, no, no, they don't. But what I'm saying is for years, you've shown them by backing off though. Yeah. That's what I've done. I've specifically just like,
not been involved at all just completely step back and just you know if there's like stupid little things like i'll help out like whenever i'm needed or if i see something that needs to be done like no problem but you know it doesn't feel like that door is even like remotely open to even have that be a possibility
Also, to be honest, we already work together with the show. I don't know if I could handle like working together in my business and what that would do to our relationship. I just think maybe it is good to keep it.
Yeah, I'm not. I don't. I mean this in like the most respectful way. Like, I don't really have an interest in like doing anything like as far as like a a role with her business. Like I'll help out if and when I'm needed.
But outside of that, like there really isn't, if I saw a spot for me, you know, like if I saw something that where I could provide immense value, then I might be more interested to say it. But as of now, I mean, Jesse's just, Jesse and her dad have done such a good job with the business and putting people in places where, where they're successful and doing well. But,
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Chapter 7: What lessons have Jessi and Jordan learned from their experiences?
But in this situation, I'm like, I did do that. You're right. Like I did cheat. What am I going to do? Defend myself? No. And I hope he would have the same approach of like, yeah, I did do that. I messed up. Like you have every right to feel that way. Move on. You know, like their opinions don't matter at the end of the day, but I for sure understand why people would think that.
Do you feel confident and safe that Jordan will no longer react to you the way he has in the past?
Yeah, for the most part. I feel like over the last six months, he's shown me that... it's gotten better. We've had moments for sure where I'm like, nope, I can see it again, but it's less intense than it was. So I feel like each time it happens, like there's more lessons learned and accountability. So it doesn't happen as much. The last month or two, especially, it's been a lot better.
I've told him, I've been very honest. Like I'm in this situation where we're doing this and I'm trying, but like, For a while, I was like, I'm one foot out. And if this happens again, if it even gets there, I'm done. And he knows that. So I think he knows it couldn't get there. But I do feel confident that he's made a lot of changes and therapy's given him tools he needs to not do that.
Not saying neither of us are perfect. I told you that I have a lot of resentment towards him. And sometimes I'll snap. And I'll be snappy because of that. But I would hope so, yeah.
In the six months before filming...
jesse mentioned that you there were moments where you um were threatening to blackmail her with the messages with marciano yeah i i mean i know the saying hurt people hurt people is that kind of where it came from 100 there was no there was i was never ever and i think that was actually it was it's exactly that you know i actually never meant it it was just to cry for help hurt people hurt people i was literally just trying like be sorry for what you did like be sorry love me like
I'm anxious over here. Like, give me something.
Did you feel like she wasn't sorry?
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Chapter 8: How do Jessi and Jordan plan to move forward together?
There was a checkout point and that's when I was rushing back.
And again, it felt like it was, yeah, maybe like, oh, you realize I'm checking out. So now you're trying to change.
Right. So like, that's, that's what was, you know, again, not making excuses for it, but I'm just saying like, I remember very specifically, no feeling that like feeling that like that checkout point and from, and then chasing before the affair even happened.
Yeah. I guess it's, you know, again, like we're, we're talking semantics here, I guess, but like, I would like friend to friend, I would feel like for you guys to make this work, and for you to truly take accountability. I get that what she did caused a lot of pain and you guys will continue to work through that and process that.
But to truly own your behavior leading up to that point, in a way I feel like requires you to like really understand why she did what she did. And then while you still have the right to be hurt by it, but to a point where you would never throw it in her face, or remind her of it or be like, but you did this.
I think we both still, I think we both have, have still had that happen. Because there's been times where, well, you had an affair or vice versa. Well, you treated me this way for four years. I don't think either of us are at that place yet. Completely. If I'm going to be transparent. That's fair. That's fair. I've heard that line multiple times. Well, you treated me this way for four years.
You treated me this way.
I told Natalie that it's almost been harder for me the better he's gotten because I'm resentful. I'm now seeing the potentials there. And I asked you for four years and you couldn't do it. But now that we're on camera, you can. Or now that...
yeah and now it's flip-flop too for me right it's it's it's hard it's hard and that's what therapy's for right yeah i just don't i don't want to blow smoke up your ass i appreciate it i i i'm being honest with you it's i think that they're they're still both of us are kind of like and sometimes it's more me and sometimes it's more her
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