Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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It's that time of year from family gatherings around a warm fireplace to catching up over your favorite peppermint mocha. Together is the best place to be. This episode is sponsored by Starbucks.
I have to say, every time I drink a peppermint mocha around the holidays, it always reminds me of when my family, after Thanksgiving, the Friday after Thanksgiving, we always go downtown Savannah. We walk the little Riverside Market. There's always a Starbucks there. Grab our drinks. Yeah, you get your hot peppermint mocha. It's cold. You're cozy. You're with family. It's fun.
It's one of my favorite traditions.
Delicioso. It tastes like Christmas.
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Chapter 2: What are the key themes of Jessi and Jordan's relationship?
And then she had watched them and I asked her how it was. And after she had watched it back, she's like, hey, I think that we should watch it together. And I was like, okay. And she's like, and if you feel in, you know, any sort of way, you know, we can stop or whatever it might be. And we watched it all the way through. It was emotional, man.
Having to relive that and see some of the things firsthand. The trip to St. George and hyper-focusing on specific details that went down and having to see myself react the way that I did to certain things. It's hurtful. It's painful to see yourself in that light and it's painful to see the most important person in your life relive those moments too.
Specifically, because obviously we had a chance to talk to Jesse and Nellie spoke with Jesse and, you know, throughout the season and obviously a part of this conversation, Jesse was pretty forthcoming about obviously your guys' relationship, not just what we saw in season three, but everything leading up.
to that and you know jesse has said that everything that she said to us she you know you guys have she said to you you guys have communicated but she obviously used some pretty direct language in in describing your treatment towards Jesse. Watching season three back, how eye-opening was it to you in terms of how you've treated Jesse throughout your relationship?
Looking back and watching that back, it was really eye-opening to see that. And obviously when we are filming, we record hundreds of hours and very, very little makes the cut. There were a lot of scenes that didn't make the cut that
you know honestly we're pretty bad you know to be forthcoming and about your behavior oh yeah yeah yeah and through the entirety of filming season two i i we were going through all of this and i was doing we were both doing everything we could to keep a lid on it
And I felt like I was dying inside because I couldn't talk to anyone about this because the risk of it getting out was something I was completely petrified of. And I think she was petrified of it as well.
Were you more worried of it getting out and hearing about what the public had to say about your relationship or you, or was it more hurtful for what Jesse did?
Both. I think during that six months, I was probably coming at it from more of a selfish standpoint. I think that I was so embarrassed and felt a lot of shame if people knew what my wife had done. And I wasn't even worried about what I had done to put her in a place where she felt that that was a need. Does that make sense? Not a need, or maybe... Drove her to a state of mind.
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Chapter 3: How did Jordan feel about his actions during Season 3?
Like in that moment, like I stand by that being, um, I wish that that didn't happen. Right. I wish that that, I think it was a poor choice. Jesse wasn't present during that. I mean, you could see it on her face. What do you mean by present? She was numb. She wasn't even there. No one was home.
Does that make you empathize with her more or less?
More. Okay. I think that's what was so painful watching it back was it was like knock, knock, no one's home. It was, it was that it was sad. It was sad on multiple fronts. It was sad on that front. And then I'm also sad for myself too.
Okay. And I guess going forward, and we'll bring Jesse and Nali in here in just a few minutes, but I guess before we do, I mean, what do you hope as the audience watches back, what do you hope that they think of you coming out of this interview? And what do you want them to know about you as a man and your ability to be a partner towards Jesse going forward?
Well, I hope that my presence here today shows that I'm willing to take accountability and that you can make mistakes and you can grow from them and you don't necessarily have to be perfect, but if you're continuing to work, I think that's kind of genuinely what's made Jesse and I have, I don't want to call it success, but the only reason that we're in the place that we're at today is because
of continuing to work on ourselves. And in turn, not only does working on ourselves make us better, but we're working on our relationship. So I think the thing that I would say if I wanted people to think about me in a certain way is that I'm just like you. I make mistakes and I try to grow from them. And I hope that that resonates with someone. That's the whole point of me coming today.
Do you think Jesse can feel safe going forward with you to say that you will never speak to her in a manner that you did before? Can she have a black and white rule going forward that if you were to ever do that again?
I told Jesse that if it ever gets like that again, I don't want anything to do with this relationship either. For her sake, for my kid's sake, and for my own sake.
All right, well, let's bring in Jesse and Natalie, and then we'll have a little powwow and talk about some of the other characters on the season and send you guys on your way. Let's do it. Thanks for having me again. Is your guy still rocking a giant wallet, the overstuffed leather brick that makes you cringe every time he pulls it out? Well, it's time for an upgrade. Get him a Ridge Wallet.
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Chapter 4: What emotional challenges did Jessi face during the affair?
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Well, welcome back.
Thanks. It's been forever.
I was going to ask this to Jordan when it was just him and I, but I didn't get a chance to ask him yet, so I'll ask him now. But obviously, last time you were here, I asked you a very direct question about what was the exact question? Do you remember? Yeah.
It was, would Jessie want her daughter to marry a man like Jordan? Yeah. And her answer was no. And I couldn't even go into detail either, so it was kind of hard. How did you find out that that question was asked and it was answered that way?
I saw a TikTok clip.
No, no, no. I came home and told you.
I came and told you. Right, right. No, no. I'm sorry. You did tell me?
Yes.
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Chapter 5: How has therapy impacted Jordan's view on his past behavior?
Um, And I still stand by that. I wish they didn't have to ever see season three. I wish they didn't have to see any of that. I don't want my kids to see their parents, their so-called heroes, in these tough positions that they both put themselves in. But again, it's how you respond. It's how you show up. And that's where the work has been done.
When I asked the question to you, Jessie, had y'all already filmed season three? Or were y'all in the middle of filming?
We were in the middle of it and we were currently separated. Okay. It was during the press tour that they showed in LA where we did like the bus and we were there and like doing press in LA, I think it was that trip. Okay.
Gotcha. So I guess with that, knowing that and knowing how you felt that Jessie had spoken this way about you to the world, did that change how you spoke to her continuing the season? Because you now had this like outsider point of view of like seeing her negatively speak about you and you didn't like it. So did that change?
I want to say that it's not like this. There was not a day it was like an awakening in therapy. It wasn't like, oh, now everything's going to be perfect. That's not how it works. So to say specifically, moving forward from that point, I don't remember specifically, but I would just say that it's just progressively gotten better.
better and better like that's that's what i'd answer to that i i don't it's honestly i just don't specifically recall like i remember being absolutely pissed off and but the nice thing about us being separated at the time is you don't have to continue to fight you can just say okay done you know so even though he was mad i don't think it continued just because we were separated and i was like i'm not gonna do that yeah
Let me ask you this question based back to Nellie's question to Jesse. I totally get and agree with you in terms of like how couples speak together about each other publicly matters. It's a big priority for Nellie and I. I completely understand why that would hurt you. What hurts you more as you sit here today? The fact that Jesse did that or how you spoke to and treated Jesse over the years?
Oh, I mean, for sure. I treated over the years. It's not even close. Okay. Yeah, I would never. I mean, like, it's not even a comparison.
Also, to be fair, I would never have just said that out of the blue. We were filming about our situation and sharing so much publicly already that I was like, this is just one of many things we're sharing. So, you know, it's going to come out.
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Chapter 6: What lessons did Jessi learn from her relationship with Jordan?
but I would never have said that out loud, right? I would have given it context. Well, no, not someone that would have an affair, but that's not who Jesse is. Like that's not her authentic self. Like that was one of the things that I remember like harping on her and like being pissed off about.
Was it hard for you to separate the two though of like, she could only answer it this way because of the show or were you kind of like, I don't give a fuck about the show. Like, I don't know.
In the moment I was like, you can say there, I remember saying something along the lines of like, you, you could have said who he, uh, in certain moments. No. Or something like that. I don't remember like specifically, but something like that. Um, but yeah, I was, I was definitely like,
Yeah, but what if it was just so bad from her point of view that she... Well, if it was so bad, then we should have been divorced. Maybe he should have been.
If there's a chance at your relationship, I think that was kind of the point. We were in this limbo place, and if you're going to make an accusation or make a comment like that, that's where that anger was coming from in that moment.
Jesse did tell us a few times that like she, you know, had tried to divorce you. She had kind of like threatened this, like, I'll walk away. And it didn't seem like it was really an option. Why wasn't it for you?
because well actually it's it's it's funny enough i remember when i asked jesse's dad for her hand and uh i remember saying him saying um he's not like the very like sentimental type like at all like he's very much like how would you describe your dad just not emotional
no like there's like emotion plays like no role in anything and i just remember him like like giving this whole spiel and and doing all this stuff and i just remember him going like this he just was like she's your problem now and i just remember one of the things that i promised him was that like divorce was not an option for me like it's just not like i don't want to do this with that ever even being an option like this is it and
I don't know. Like, it's just one of those things. It's always like kind of stood in my head. Like I made that decision and like my love for Jesse has never wavered. Like, you know, what might be coming might've wavered or like, you know, the possibility of divorce, but like my, my love for her, like it never wavered.
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Chapter 7: How do Jessi and Jordan plan to move forward after their struggles?
And you know, we went into a lot of depth with that, but.
Jessie, do you see that point of view? Do you feel like that's valid for him?
Yeah, I think he's definitely an anxious attachment type and I'm a, what am I?
Avoidant. Avoidant. You forgot.
Yeah, sorry. I was like, I know there's a word for it. I'm avoidant. So I don't, I'm not overly emotional. I'm not like a typical girl, I would say.
No.
I don't like get jealous. I don't, I just, I don't know. So yeah, maybe I'm not the best at showing love, but I do feel like it was not,
crazy horrible like maybe I was just working a lot and you felt like I wasn't your top priority and I for sure could see that maybe I could have made him more of a priority rather than my business because I I did make that like my whole life do I think it was justified like to be treated that way just because of that no especially when I gave him a pretty nice life but I understand what he means by it like the sentiment of it yeah is it hard to hear that she says she gave you a pretty nice life
Well, it's just, I mean, we also talked about that. So one thing that the show doesn't really highlight is the fact that up until, well, this is, we're coming up on two years now. Wow. But, you know, I used to have my dream job with people that I love working with and I made really good money doing it. And It just didn't make sense to commute to California for four months of the year.
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Chapter 8: What role does public perception play in their relationship dynamics?
Do you remember it that way? And why did you choose to go about it that way rather than kind of bringing him into the fold?
So to be honest, I would love if he could be a part of it, but my family just would not allow it to be honest. Like Jordan can be very controlling and very opinionated. There's been a few times he's done little things for us and he comes in and tries to change everything. And they were like, this is our business. Like,
you're aware of this like yeah you know they we're talking about years old stuff but yeah no yeah but like that's really what happened is he would try to help out with things but then he would try to change it or do it his way or give us feedback that we didn't necessarily need and I think it all came from a good place of like him wanting to help but he has a way of it coming across as controlling and harsh at times so my family truly was like we don't want him involved like this is our thing so it just kind of got to that point where I had to say like sorry it has to be separate
are you interested in like showing Jesse's family that you're capable of knowing your role when it comes to participating with the family business? I've done that now for years.
So it's, it's, that may have been, they don't seem to feel that way. Well, no, no, no, they don't. But what I'm saying is for years, you've shown them by backing off though. Yeah. That's what I've done. I've specifically just like,
not been involved at all just completely step back and just you know if there's like stupid little things like i'll help out like whenever i'm needed or if i see something that needs to be done like no problem but you know it doesn't feel like that door is even like remotely open to even have that be a possibility
Also, to be honest, we already work together with the show. I don't know if I could handle like working together in my business and what that would do to our relationship. I just think maybe it is good to keep it.
Yeah, I'm not. I don't. I mean this in like the most respectful way. Like, I don't really have an interest in like doing anything like as far as like a a role with her business. Like I'll help out if and when I'm needed.
But outside of that, like there really isn't, if I saw a spot for me, you know, like if I saw something that where I could provide immense value, then I might be more interested to say it. But as of now, I mean, Jesse's just, Jesse and her dad have done such a good job with the business and putting people in places where, where they're successful and doing well. But,
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