Call to enforce legislation already in place to protect children online

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Today with David McCullagh 14 min 2 speakers 8 chapters transcribed 11 hours ago

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What did Ursula von der Leyen announce about the EU Kids Act and why does it matter?

David McCullagh 0:00

Last week, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen confirmed the introduction of what's called the EU Kids Act. In her State of the Union address on Wednesday, she announced the new legislation which proposes a strengthening of regulations and the imposition of restrictions on children and teenagers access to social media. But given how long legislation takes to be implemented, is this the right approach to this very pressing issue? Or should we be concentrating on using laws that already exist to discuss this in more detail? I joined in studio by the online safety coordinator with the Children's Rights Alliance, Nolene Blackwell. Nolene, good morning to you. Good morning, David. Thanks a minute for coming in.

David McCullagh 0:38

Um let's start with what Ursula von der Leyen said in her speech last week. I mean, it does this sound like the EU is finally waking up to the significant harms social media can have on children?

Noeline Blackwell 0:49

Yeah, it's a it it definitely is a firmer tone than we've heard before from the EU Commission. Um it they are they have been gathering evidence over time and there was they did a big uh investigation into this, brought experts in to do a a special report which launched in July, which was kind of the basis for this, but also the EU Commission has been acting as regulator and in July as well, for instance, they found as a preliminary Finding against Meta for Facebook, for Instagram, there were features which were addictive and could lead to harm for children if they were used excessively. So they're building up the bank of evidence. And what's good about what she came out with was that this evidence-based approach is really putting the responsibility back on the tech companies to a greater extent.

Noeline Blackwell 1:39

Mm. To produce safe products, which really should be a given. In the European Union, they should not be selling or deploying products that are unsafe and unsafe for children.

How does the EU’s evidence‑based approach shift responsibility onto tech companies?

Noeline Blackwell 1:52

But there is it's it's a question of regulation, but it is that question also of actually speaking out to the tech companies in that way is new in my My hearing of the way the Commission has approached it. They have been very deferential, we could say, to the tech companies. And now there's something where you feel there's some maybe a dotted line, but a line is being drawn.

David McCullagh 2:18

I mean the I suppose the question is where does the burden of proof lie? Does the burden of proof lie with regulators or parents to say this is unsafe, or should the burden of proof lie with the companies to prove that this is safe?

Noeline Blackwell 2:29

Yeah, it should. Even without new legislation, our regulations require the big social media platforms that we know to make sure that children under eighteen do not access material that is harmful to them or that is illegal. That is the law as it stands right now. So but but it is clear that when the Tech companies are doing this, they say they're doing their best and they love children and they don't want to wish children any harm. But their their material, their actions don't match their words. And really, what they really say is: you, the children, and you, the parents and caregivers of the children, you have the responsibility to make sure your children are safe. And that's like saying to somebody,

Noeline Blackwell 3:19

Uh you have to make sure that the jet engine you're going to fly in when you next get on a plane is safe. We just don't have that sort of knowledge as lay people. So there is a step towards saying to the tech companies, you are not asking the right questions, you are not taking the right measures towards ensuring that children are safer online. For instance, uh Von der Lauren.

Why is the burden of proof a key issue for regulators, parents, and platforms?

Noeline Blackwell 3:44

Said in her speech that this new legislation would mean children under 13 would not be able to access certain platforms. Well, the platforms themselves already have rules that say children under 13 shouldn't access them. And 13 is the age they use because that's the American age at which children are given more safety under 13. So that rule is there. In the tech companies. But again, people like Children's Rights Alliance is an organization which has a number of members, and one of them is Cyber Safe Kids, which does work every single year looking.