Time Will Tell | Trained to Kill
episodePreviously titled “Time Will Tell” — renamed by the publisher on Aug 3, 2026
Transcript
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What is the background and setting of the Mark Stover case?
This is Pershing Lake. Just over these trees over here is where the Updike residence is.
How did law enforcement search for Mark Stover's body?
In June 2010, Chief Deputy Dave Rodriguez took me out on patrol in an Okanagan County Sheriff's fast boat on a lake just a few miles from Linda Updike's home outside Winthrop, Washington. Rodriguez had helped Linda Updike train a new attack dog, and later was one of the deputies who arrested Michael Oakes. Months had passed since Mark Stover was murdered, and still, his body had not been found.
Skagit County Sheriff's Office asked us to check any probable locations where the body may be dumped in water. We were so close to her home, this was on the list to check.
Michael Oakes had spent time near these waters, and Rodriguez wanted to check if he might have sunk Mark's body here. So how does this work?
Well, I don't know if you can see, but the lake is too big for two or three or four or even six divers to adequately search.
That's why they turned to sonar to scour the lake bed.
And we grid search across the lake, and then when we find something of interest on the sonar screen, then we put divers down on it.
And that diver will be you? Yes, today it's me. Then Deputy Rodriguez slowed the boat down toward a spot where he had detected some kind of an image. He put on the diver's suit.
You ready?
Ready. And jumped into the water. He swam below the boat, but no luck.
It's been quite a while since Mr. Stover's been missing, so that makes it more difficult.
Decomposition. Correct. The search for Mark Stover had stretched across the state of Washington. the one person who could end that search decided to be Coy. Are you willing to tell authorities where you placed Mark Stover's body?
Certainly, all that I know about the whereabouts of Mark Stover, I will be more than happy to share with authorities in the course of our trial.
This is going to be a dramatic week.
It has been a dramatic year.
Who are the key players in the trial of Michael Oakes?
I'm Peter Van Sant. From 48 Hours, it's Trained to Kill, the dog trainer, the heiress, and the bodyguard. Episode six, time will tell. Michael Oakes has been accused of a murder of Mark Stover. What do you say? Prove it. That's John Henry Brown. He was Michael Oak's lead defense attorney. We spoke in 2010. So my defense is prove it. First, I have to prove there's a murder. Right? Brown is a brilliant showman known for making arguments in court that could fit into the final scene of a primetime legal drama. We've got blood. Right. We've got shell casings. Correct. Got a dog that was shot. Correct. But we don't have a body. Correct.
And what does that add up to for you? A case of circumstantial evidence.
When it comes to representing accused killers, Brown has been around the block. He titled his memoir, The Devil's Defender, to highlight a career spent arguing on behalf of defendants he considered evil. His client list included one of the most notorious serial killers in American history, Ted Bundy, who said he had murdered 30 people.
Bundy once told me that he knew he was evil. Now, most sociopaths don't say that. Now, I don't see any of that in Michael at all.
What was the defense attorney John Henry Brown's argument?
Brown argued instead that Mark Stover represented the evil in this case, not his client.
I think somebody asked Michael recently whether he thought, Michael thought, Mark Stover was evil. And Michael said, no, not all parts of him, which I thought was a very gracious thing for Michael to say under the circumstances. But I think there were parts of Mark Stover that were very evil. You know, when you start treating people as objects, which is what Stover did, particularly with Linda, then I think that crosses over.
In court, they planned to make the case that Michael shot Mark in self-defense. The trial started in September 2010, less than a year after Mark Stover was killed.
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Chapters
9 chapters
1
What is the background and setting of the Mark Stover case?
0:34–0:42
2
How did law enforcement search for Mark Stover's body?
0:42–3:17
3
Who are the key players in the trial of Michael Oakes?
3:17–4:56
4
What was the defense attorney John Henry Brown's argument?
4:56–7:37
5
How did Michael Oakes describe the self-defense shooting incident?
7:37–9:15
6
What role did the Kevlar vest demonstration play in the trial?
9:15–10:59
7
Why was the bullet hole in Michael Oakes’ vest considered suspicious?
10:59–11:38
8
What did Michael Oakes reveal about the disposal of Mark Stover's body?
11:38–15:12
9
What inconsistencies did the prosecution highlight in Michael Oakes’ testimony?
15:12–34:01
Speakers
16 identified
Peter Van Sant 16 min
Michael Oakes 4 min
John Henry Brown (Defense Attorney) 1 min
Rosemary Cajolacula (Skagit County Prosecutor) 1 min
Linda Opdycke 1 min
Judge Mike Rickert 1 min
Emma Greed 1 min
Rich Weirich (Skagit County Prosecutor) 1 min
Unknown Male Speaker 2 1 min
Unidentified Law Enforcement Officer (Boat/sonar operator) 1 min
Corbin Valles (Brown's Co-Counsel)
Corey Oaks (Michael's Mother)
Victoria Simmons
Podcast Promo Announcer
Unknown Male Speaker 1
Jury Foreperson