De-pathologizing Series EP 1 – The Many Meanings of NO - with Barry and Dave
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What is the purpose of the de‑pathologizing series and who are the hosts?
The primary purpose of Uniquely Human the Podcast is to educate and inform. The views expressed during all episodes are solely those of the individuals involved and do not constitute educational or medical advice. Listeners should consult with professionals familiar with each individual or family for specific guidance.
Uniquely Human, the podcast, is produced by Elevated Studio. Music is graciously provided by Matt Savage of Savage Records.
Hi, I'm Dr. Barry Prazant, clinical scholar, researcher, and consultant on autism and neurodiversity, and a Brooklyn boy raised in the big city.
And I'm Dave. I'm none of those things, and I grew up on a farm in Illinois. But being on the spectrum myself, I have plenty of personal insight to lend.
And
this is
It's uniquely human the podcast, a show that illuminates and celebrates autism and neurodiversity.
Uh Barry, you had uh an excellent idea that I wanna I wanna see over the finish line because um I don't have ideas and when I do have them they're not good. So we should celebrate the ones that are good, which come from you. And uh the idea you had was we talk about depathologizing autism a lot in this podcast, and depathologizing autism really is the foundation of all of the you know Deep research that you've done, all the academic work that you've done, but also all the applied practice um o over your entire career.
Mm-hmm.
And that I think is depathologizing is the thing, the theme of your body of work that people gravitate to the most because we get so much um sort of counter narrative to that by default when the word autism is brought up, right? We think like okay, well how'd we fix it? And you know? Um so Uh but when we talk about depathologizing autism, that's a that's a very broad range of things. And I you know, you you said it might be helpful to dive in to uh very specific categories of um what people would call autistic behaviors. And that's not a phrase that you uh like to use. Um everybody has behaviors, but um the observable things that uh you know and one of those uh so we'll do a whole series on this in the podcast, but um where we wanted to dive in was something that you've written about and you actually speak a lot about in your your live uh presentations and um keynotes and and things like that.
And I would call this the title of this would be The Different Meanings of No. Mhm. So depathologizing when when a young person or um you know, e even an adult on the spectrum Is saying no. That's not something that needs to be fixed, corrected. It's something that needs to be understood. And you laid out something very clearly. There are several different meanings or interpretations or reasons for the word no. Um that you might be getting from this person.
Yes, uh a absolutely. And I I think we're talking about one of the patterns of behavior uh that really has been so overly simplified, um, under terms such as non compliance and uh which implies, okay, well we just need to get this person or this kid to comply, um and we have to train the noncompliance out of him or her. Um but wha what's so important is The pushback of the general notion of refusal or protest and other reasons that we'll be talking about now. So the important thing is that once again we have to go to the deep why and understand that there can be many different meanings of when an adult, a child, actually any human being um refuses to go along with our agenda or what we have asked
that person to do. That's right. And it it's funny, we we are not conditioned usually just as people. um, in our society anyway, um, to say no very often. Uh it's the compliance that's d drilled into us when we were kids from our own parents, who it was drilled into them from their parents and on and on and on. So when you actually do have somebody with the um uh sense of uh with their own wherewithal to say no to something, um, that is really time to listen because it's not It's not something so too many people feel empowered to do.
Yeah, and and uh you know, once again, I think it's so often seen as just a problem as opposed to part of a person's development um or part of a person's self determination.
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Chapters
5 chapters
1
What is the purpose of the de‑pathologizing series and who are the hosts?
0:00–6:36
2
Why is a child’s “NO” more than just non‑compliance?
6:36–14:23
3
How can we tell if a “NO” is due to missing information or misunderstanding?
14:23–25:54
4
What strategies help clarify requests so a “NO” isn’t a default reaction?
25:54–37:50
5
When does a “NO” represent testing limits rather than true refusal?
37:50–59:52
Speakers
3 identifiedMore from Uniquely Human: The Podcast
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ALL ABOUT NONSPEAKERS: REFLECTIONS ON AUTISM SPECTRUM NEWS ISSUE WITH AMY LAURENT AND JEN LEPAPE
Two Dads Who Connected with Uniquely Human Interview Barry