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Up First from NPR

Caught in Cambodia’s Scam Machine: Part 1

21 Jun 2026

Transcription

Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.

Chapter 1: What is the global scam industry operating in Cambodia?

2.63 - 6.636 Ayesha Roscoe

I'm Ayesha Roscoe, and you're listening to the Sunday Story from Up First.

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7.317 - 13.927 Shabani Matani

So we've come in through the back now. Security guards stopped us. They didn't allow me to take any photos.

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14.107 - 30.896 Ayesha Roscoe

Earlier this year, investigative reporter Shabani Matani visited a massive industrial complex outside of Cambodia's capital, Phnom Penh. It's set up like an office park, but it's fortified against the outside world.

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30.916 - 40.396 Shabani Matani

There's barbed wire all around, CCTVs. You can see lookout posts as well on the top of the buildings.

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40.757 - 44.685 Ayesha Roscoe

People once lived here, about 20,000 of them.

44.767 - 53.058 Shabani Matani

It looks like dormitories, sort of white buildings with black rails and with bars on the windows.

53.199 - 58.045 Ayesha Roscoe

And it's clear that it was abruptly abandoned. So much trash.

58.626 - 65.155 Shabani Matani

It's a whole little city. I mean, Times Square could fit in this. So all of these are hallmarks of a scam compound.

65.135 - 92.762 Ayesha Roscoe

This cyber scam compound is among dozens in Cambodia that operated with impunity for years. Migrants were brought to these places from throughout Asia and Africa and put to work scamming people on the other side of the world. According to the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center, the cyber scam industry managed to defraud Americans of more than $20 billion last year.

Chapter 2: How did workers end up in Cambodia's scam compounds?

363.747 - 385.881 Shabani Matani

And Dara and I, we spent the week together zooming around in his little tuk-tuk. He's also a tuk-tuk driver sometimes to earn extra money. And it was through Dara that I got introduced to one Ugandan man in particular. His name is Shwaib and he's 24. We would come to know each other pretty well over the next few weeks.

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388.527 - 412.307 Shabani Matani

Shuaib and I ended up meeting in person for the first time at a Cambodian burger chain called Lucky Burgers. I saw him from the back first. I could see even from the door when I went in that he was pretty tall, but mostly really lanky. He was wearing sort of dark grey baseball cap and acid wash jeans and a greyish black t-shirt.

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412.287 - 430.043 Shabani Matani

When we sat down, he had his phone out and he was taking little notes on his phone and he seemed kind of nervous. Then once he started speaking, I had to sort of figure out times that I could interrupt him because once he started talking, he really opened up about his story and just got really into it and kept going.

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431.305 - 448.528 Shabani Matani

Shuaib asked me to identify him by just his first name for his security, because what he shares about the inner workings of these criminal syndicates, which continue to operate today, and his own role could put him at risk. Shuaib told me his story from the beginning, before he even arrived in Cambodia.

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449.549 - 477.985 Shabani Matani

And, you know, I think it's important because it reveals the long and really the truly global reach of the scam industry. So Shoaib is from Kampala, the capital of Uganda. One day in January of 2025, he was sick in bed, scrolling TikTok, when he saw something that made him stop for a little bit. It was a targeted job ad on his For You page.

478.437 - 483.264 Shabani Matani

Promising somewhere between $800 to $1,000 for a month's work in Cambodia.

483.284 - 488.211 Ishmael / Oscar

Visa, free air ticket, whatnot. Then I was like, these are scammers. Then I left it.

488.551 - 491.355 Shabani Matani

So at first he actually dismissed it and, you know, he kept scrolling.

491.655 - 504.934 Ishmael / Oscar

Then after scrolling some couple of days, I also saw it again. Then I was like, it doesn't cost me anything to send a message. Why shouldn't I? I sent a message on TikTok. Then...

Chapter 3: What promises lured workers to Cambodia for scam jobs?

786.794 - 806.46 Shabani Matani

He thought it was like a rave actually because they're playing this music and it was music that he liked. It is good music. It is EDM. EDM music with heavy beats and he stepped out of the car and he thinks, oh my gosh, like wow, where have I landed? This is going to be good. Like people here seem to really be enjoying themselves.

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807.241 - 812.127 Ishmael / Oscar

They are partying, they are walking. We are going to enjoy our life here.

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815.313 - 829.275 Shabani Matani

A tribe entered the compound. The illuminated sign said Bavette Business Center. He noticed how multinational it was. He saw Chinese people, he saw Filipinos, he saw Vietnamese people. He heard a lot of different languages.

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829.315 - 839.11 Ishmael / Oscar

There were Pakistan, Nepali, the Ghanians, Nigerians, Ugandans, Kenyans, Tanzanians. There were a lot of people there and different tribes.

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839.832 - 855.448 Shabani Matani

When the driver dropped him off, he left and there was another guy who brought him in. This guy was Chinese and he introduced himself as the boss of the company. He greeted him and asked him to hand over his passport. So Shoaib gave him his passport.

855.468 - 857.089 Ishmael / Oscar

They took our passport. That's the number one.

857.61 - 864.817 Shabani Matani

Someone showed him a room and told him that was the room that he would be staying in and that he was going to share that room with a number of other guys too.

865.318 - 875.421 Ishmael / Oscar

Now you have to rest. We will get back to you tomorrow since you are tired. Then we slept.

875.441 - 876.783 Shabani Matani

The next day he signed his contract.

Chapter 4: Who is Shuaib and what is his story in Cambodia?

1250.215 - 1258.943 Shabani Matani

In another, he was a 34-year-old with a dog named Toby. The tone was never pushy. So I guess most of your clients were American, right?

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1260.526 - 1270.357 Ishmael / Oscar

That was the market that we were in. But some market in the USA market, some it is Canada, some it is India, some it is UK, some it is South Africa.

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1270.837 - 1284.492 Shabani Matani

After Schreib convinced his client to sign up, his goal was to get them to withdraw their money. That was his goal, to get them to withdraw. The client had to see that the scheme was working. They had to gain something from it, you know, so that they would come back.

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1285.535 - 1294.709 Shabani Matani

And then once they did, once they put in a deposit, withdrew it, Shuai would hand the client up the chain until eventually that client interacted with a killer.

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1295.49 - 1302.921 Ishmael / Oscar

But the killers were only those Chinese. We used to call them killers because what they were doing, they were killing.

1304.503 - 1340.652 Shabani Matani

This killer would convince the client to make their very last deposit before emptying out the whole wallet. Schwab said that after each kill, the killers would celebrate. Schwab said he heard some of the killers boast about how they made a huge kill from a client with a hospitalized kid. He heard killers talk about targeting entire communities of retirees.

1340.902 - 1363.924 Ishmael / Oscar

Somebody can say that I'm so sick. I don't have anything to eat. I've sold my house. I've sold my car. I don't have anything left. I'm done. I'm done. Then after one week, you hear the same killer is hitting the drum. Then you'd be like, what's happening? Maybe those guys, maybe they have some witchcraft.

1363.944 - 1374.931 Shabani Matani

Schreib said he considered telling clients he spoke to that this was a scam so they could get out of it. Did you ever think, like, Did you ever feel very emotional or very upset?

1374.951 - 1376.253 Ishmael / Oscar

A lot of times. A lot of times.

Chapter 5: What were the initial experiences of workers in scam operations?

1617.096 - 1629.016 Ishmael / Oscar

I used to take two pills, two pills, two pills, two pills, two pills. His prayers started to change.

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1630.137 - 1658.357 Shabani Matani

When he'd left Kampala, he brought a Quran with him. But rather than just praying for himself and his escape, when he said his daily prayers, he started praying that the clients who withdrew their profits wouldn't come back. But Schreib said that he gradually came to think it wasn't just the killers who were greedy. He believed the clients themselves were also pulled in by greed.

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1662.663 - 1665.768 Shabani Matani

Because they should have known. The arrangement?

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1666.75 - 1673.68 Ayesha Roscoe

This is a Sunday story. Stay with us.

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1677.777 - 1698.435 Terry Gross

So listen to the Fresh Air podcast from NPR and WHYY.

1699.411 - 1721.908 Korva Coleman

For instant clarity on world events in just five minutes, listen to NPR News Now. New episodes drop every hour. With the latest on U.S. politics, international news, the economy, health, science, technology, and more, five minutes is all it takes to get fully caught up with NPR News Now. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get podcasts.

1724.268 - 1749.533 Shabani Matani

So when we say scam company, the word company, it's entirely apt. You can't think of these as sort of scrappy little criminal enterprises or mafia in the jungle. They're run like a business. Frontline scammers like Schweib, they're managed by their team leaders, who are their direct bosses. Then they have to report up to managers, who in turn report to the head of a department.

1749.513 - 1767.235 Shabani Matani

Then there's an HR department which handles recruitment, PR division that handles ads. Those are just the departments inside the compound itself. Outside, there's a whole infrastructure to protect and serve the criminal enterprise. There are drivers who bring migrants like Schweib over to the compound.

1767.215 - 1784.534 Shabani Matani

Fruit vendors and drink sellers who move to the streets around the compounds, hoping to cash in. There are the security guards who keep watch. And then the land itself, that is owned and controlled by tycoons close to the Cambodian government. They profit off the compounds on their land.

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