Show notes
On today's episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I speak to author of "Carry On" @carryonthebook Shea Bart Andreone @shea_andreone . Shea shares her deeply personal journey through fertility challenges, pregnancy struggles, and the emotional rollercoaster of loss and hope. She discusses her desire to become a parent, the difficulties she faced with hyperemesis gravidarum, and the heartbreak of losing a pregnancy. Ultimately, Shea emphasizes the importance of resilience and the joy of welcoming her children into the world. In this heartfelt conversation, Shea Bart Andreone shares her journey through the challenges of parenthood, including loss, the search for control, and the importance of community support. She discusses her book 'Carry On', which compiles true stories of individuals navigating the complexities of starting a family. The conversation emphasizes the significance of hope and resilience in the face of adversity, and the need for emotional support in healing. Be sure to tune in as you won't want to miss our deeply touching and hope filled conversation! Takeaways Shea always wanted to be a parent and started her journey with high hopes. Fertility struggles are common and can be emotionally taxing. Hyperemesis gravidarum is a severe form of morning sickness that can lead to significant health challenges. Shea experienced extreme nausea and weight loss during her pregnancy. The emotional toll of pregnancy loss is profound and can lead to feelings of guilt and despair. Shea's journey highlights the unpredictability of pregnancy and the importance of being adaptable. The desire to have children can drive individuals to persevere through immense challenges. Finding peace is possible, even amidst uncertainty. Loss can lead to discovering new activities that provide control. Writing can be a powerful outlet for processing experiences. Community support is crucial for those facing fertility challenges. The journey of parenthood can be isolating without connection. Stories of others can provide comfort and understanding. It's important to seek out community and support during difficult times. Guest Bio: Shea Bart Andreone was raised in Queens, New York, but moved west and loves California. She is a writer of numerous plays, essays, and maintains a blog called Twig Hugger. Shea has written multiple articles for mom and parent-oriented platforms (The Next Family, Motherfigure, LA Parent, Your Teen Magazine, and Chicken Soup For The Soul). Carry On is her first book and she hopes that it can provide hope and comfort to those who are on the fertility journey. Websites: https://sheabartandreone.com/ Instagram: @carryonthebook @shea_andreone X: X.comCarryOnTheBook For more information about Michelle, visit: www.michelleoravitz.com The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewholesomelotus/ Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Shea Bart Andreone (00:01) Thank you. Thanks for having me. Michelle (00:04) Yeah, it's a pleasure having you and I would love for you to share your story and what got you inspired to write your book Carry On. would love for you to share that with the listeners. Shea Bart Andreone (00:17) I would love to. So I always loved kids. I always wanted a younger sibling. I wanted to babysit when my parents decided they were never gonna have another child. I'm the youngest with a big age gap. So I took on all things that could keep me around. Michelle (00:36) Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (00:45) kids so that I felt like I could be a big sister or a babysat. And I taught kids and ran day camps and stuff like that. I always knew that I wanted to be a parent and start a family. So when I did finally find the person to do that with, I thought, okay, well, when we get to that moment, it's just gonna be easy peasy and you know, that's so exciting. We make the decision and we go. And of course, like every listener of your podcast and many, many more people around the world, it doesn't always work that way. So it took me quite a bit of time to figure out what to do. You you're instructed pretty quickly to try for longer and I just, think I knew something was going to stop me unless I got help, but I, I did see my regular OB at the time and she suggested that we do an HSG, where they flush the iodine up your fallopian tubes. And she discovered that, I, I, you can really feel that. Michelle (02:04) Not a fun test. Yeah, it's crazy, but I hear so many things, so many stories, and I just wish doctors would just let people know like what's coming. Shea Bart Andreone (02:19) Yeah, like exactly what you're gonna feel. Yeah, no, we have to experience it for ourselves. So that resulted in finding out that I had a fibroid right at the opening of my uterus. So I had scheduled the surgery to get it removed and somehow in... Michelle (02:21) Yeah. Yeah. Shea Bart Andreone (02:48) that, well, not somehow. We know how making babies can work. I guess my husband and I were continuing to try and because of the HSG, it pushed the fibroid a little bit out of the way and I was able to actually conceive. But the fibroid and the pregnancy, they were fighting for the blood supply. Michelle (03:16) So just backing up, were you about to do surgery for it, but then you stopped because you got pregnant? Shea Bart Andreone (03:22) Yeah, so I scheduled a surgery and then ended up in crazy, crazy pain. like pain I'd never experienced before, like just shocking, like sharp, sharp pain. And I ended up calling the doctor and she said, go to the emergency room. And it was in the emergency room that I found out I was actually pregnant. Michelle (03:30) Mm. wow. Shea Bart Andreone (03:52) And I was told basically, you gotta just kind of deal with this because they didn't know which one would win out. So I waited and I took whatever I could for pain, but not a lot, because I was like, well, I think I had a feeling like, no, no, no, I'm pregnant. Like, this is amazing. Michelle (04:06) Got it. wow, you felt it before they confirmed it? Shea Bart Andreone (04:22) No, no, no. I definitely didn't know when I went in, but once I was, I was very protective. I was like, no, I don't, you can tell me all you want that like, there's a chance this won't stick, but I'm going to protect this. So I was very, very careful. And then in the end, that doctor was really not helpful. And I had like, Michelle (04:25) Okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. For sure. Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (04:51) crazy pain on the following Monday and ended up like my sister-in-law said, just go to my doctor, just go to my doctor. So I went to her doctor and I had a very like strong clear line in the sand that I would not go to a male doctor. And I felt like at that point I was like, okay, like we all have things on this journey that we think we're not gonna do. And we think we're gonna like, Michelle (05:09) Mm-hmm. Yes. Shea Bart Andreone (05:19) okay, I'm never gonna do IVF or I'm never gonna do IUI and I'm not gonna, and then like, you're like, well, I'm gonna change that. So I started with him and I really do think that because of that situation, I ended up in the right hands. So luckily for me, like that pregnancy ended up sticking. Michelle (05:22) It's true. that's great. Shea Bart Andreone (05:49) and that fibroid eventually just sort of died off. However, within, I think I felt good for like two weeks and then I started feeling symptoms of hyperemesis gravidarum, which is, yeah, a few weeks in, I started feeling severely nauseous and, Michelle (06:06) Mm-hmm. You mean early in the pregnancy. Mm-hmm. Right. Shea Bart Andreone (06:18) I thought, okay, well, this will pass. This is what they tell people, like, know, morning sickness, but it's not morning sickness. Hyperamesis Gravidarum is like, if I threw up eight times in a day, that was a really good day. And I broke all the blood vessels in my face daily from the pressure of vomiting. And the blood vessels in my eyes were... Michelle (06:35) Wow, yeah. Shea Bart Andreone (06:48) Like my, I had bloodshot eyes and just could not remember a time that I liked food. Like it was so awful to me. Like the idea of it, sipping water, anything. And originally, like... Michelle (07:04) Yeah, that's that's a big thing, too, because people get dehydrated. Shea Bart Andreone (07:08) Yeah, yeah, and I tried everything. tried like, you know, motion sickness bands and you know, there were lollipops that were supposed to help and ice pops and nothing, nothing, nothing. And I just didn't want anything. And that, you know, began the insane journey of my pregnancy because that led me to lose about 15 pounds. Michelle (07:18) Mm-hmm. Wow. Shea Bart Andreone (07:37) And my doctor didn't quite realize how bad it was. And when he did, he was like, I am giving you medication that is going to stop the, you know, the vomiting for a few days and you have to eat. If you do not gain weight by Monday or stay the same, I have to admit you for a feeding tube. So we took the weekend. Michelle (07:54) Yeah. Wow. Shea Bart Andreone (08:06) And my husband was like, can you think of anything, any food you ever liked? And I was like, pizza. Michelle (08:18) Ha ha ha ha! Shea Bart Andreone (08:21) For like kid food, I went to growing up, had, I think was, had Elio's frozen pizza and tater tots. And I was like, I don't even know where that came from, but okay, let's try that. And the medication was so intense that you basically like, you could eat and then you'd fall asleep. And so that started on a Friday and Saturday midday, I woke up and I felt like, Michelle (08:23) Yeah. The simple things. Shea Bart Andreone (08:51) I couldn't stop moving. Like I was very restless. And I felt like this must be what restless leg syndrome is like, but it feels like this for my whole body. And that was crazy because I'd never experienced a situation like that before where you feel like it's out of control. Like you can't say kind of wreaks havoc on your mind because you don't want to keep moving, but you are. Michelle (08:53) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. wow. Shea Bart Andreone (09:21) Yeah. Michelle (09:21) Yeah, yeah. Is that from, was that from the medication side effect? my God, you poor thing. You got tortured. Shea Bart Andreone (09:25) Yeah. It's the yeah, it got worse too. Then I got jaw lock. Michelle (09:31) no. no. Shea Bart Andreone (09:37) So like my entire jaw just locked to one side. And once that started, it didn't let go for 16 hours. Michelle (09:42) no. my God. Shea Bart Andreone (09:51) And the only thing that would help is sometimes I could put all my upper body weight over my husband's shoulder and it would like kind of fall. And at one point in that time it moved to the other side, but it was so uncomfortable and so painful. And I remember walking to use the bathroom at some point and looking at the toilet and thinking, I'd actually rather throw up than this. Like, I'm like. Michelle (10:01) Mm-hmm. Mm. poor thing. my gosh. And was that also from the medication? Wow. Shea Bart Andreone (10:24) Yeah. And it's interesting how your brain can only focus on one thing at a time, because in the back of my mind, I was like, how could I remain pregnant through all of this? my body is going through so much trauma right now. I don't know how. And Michelle (10:34) Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (10:49) I knew that my husband was thinking the same thing, but we weren't discussing it because I was so distracted by the pain and the discomfort. But I knew that he was calling the doctor and trying to find out like, would this baby be okay? And fortunately he got the answer that like, this, guess what you eat doesn't. Michelle (11:08) Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (11:18) always and what you what medicine doesn't always go fully like you do filter those things out to a degree. And I remember the next, you know, that was over the weekend and I went back and I, I was able to maintain my weight. So he did not have to send me to the hospital. But I remember, like waiting with bated breath to see that ultrasound on Monday morning. And Michelle (11:46) Yeah. Shea Bart Andreone (11:46) there was the baby inside with its legs crossed and an arm back and like yeah I've been fine in here. Michelle (11:55) lounging. That's amazing. Shea Bart Andreone (12:00) Like, I know you've been in hell, but I'm having a vacation. Michelle (12:03) I'm sure you tell the story. It's interesting because my mom actually reminded me again. You have stories that you just keep hearing over and over and over again. But truthfully, mean, suffered secondary infertility to conceive me. So I'm kind of a product of secondary infertility. And she's tried and tried and tried. She said every time I get my period, I cry. Shea Bart Andreone (12:06) Yeah. Michelle (12:28) And it was really the stories of the people that I treat. It's so crazy how that comes full circle. And I'm kind of like the proof that a woman can go through all of this and still have a baby. And she also had the same thing. I don't know how severe it was, but to the point where she lost so much weight, she was under a hundred pounds and her doctor said, listen, we got to abort this child. You're not going to survive. And she's like, no way. You know, and it was, it's pretty crazy. You know, you go through this journey and then you advice that you're like, no, no, no, no, no, this is not happening. Shea Bart Andreone (13:04) Yeah, you get advice and then also like you try again and willingly enter something this crazy because the power and the, you know, the need and the, yeah. Yeah. That desire to have children is, is pretty huge. pretty, it's, it's, it's quite magical and Michelle (13:10) Mm-hmm. The belief really, right? The belief in that desire. Shea Bart Andreone (13:34) wondrous, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Michelle (13:37) I agree. I think it's meant to be there. Like, I don't think that it's a random thing. People feel that really strong calling and I don't think it's random. It's not just something that was kind of planted there for no reason. I think it's because you're meant to find the baby in one way the other. Like you were saying before about how maybe you don't expect it to be IVF, but maybe it is, and then you can kind of go back and forth. But even with... egg donor or embryo donor or even adoption. I've had people talk about that and they said I was meant to have that baby. Like it was that calling. just that I was trying to control how it was going to show up. Shea Bart Andreone (14:17) Yeah, yeah, it's really wild. mean, the things when you listen to other people's stories, sometimes you're like, why didn't you stop? And like, mean, or how did you keep going? How did you persevere? like, I follow someone online who is pregnant right now. And this is the first positive pregnancy test that she's gotten in over eight, like in eight years of trying. While you wait. Michelle (14:28) Mm-hmm. I think I saw that one. Yes. It was amazing. It was really, my God, I got the chills with the video that she showed. was like, that was amazing. Shea Bart Andreone (14:47) Yes, it was amazing! Yeah, like to see that double line. yeah, that's a long time. And people go through a lot. And it is not something for anyone on the outside to judge or decide or advise on because that desire, like you said, it's pretty wild. Yeah, yeah. Michelle (14:57) Yeah, after eight years. Yeah. It's real. Shea Bart Andreone (15:22) So in the end, I did get a very healthy baby and a baby girl. did not find out the gender and in the middle of a contraction, my husband, we had names for both a boy and a girl and in the middle of a contraction, my husband goes, I gotta tell you something. I don't like the boy's name. And I was like, I can't talk to you right now. Michelle (15:45) That's funny. That is so funny. Shea Bart Andreone (15:52) So for that sake, we were very happy to have a girl. Like we were happy to have a girl anyway. think we admitted to each other we really wanted a girl, but like, obviously we would have been over the moon for anything except that I don't know what we would have named that boy. So, you know, when she was about... Michelle (15:59) Yeah. Yeah, that's so funny. Shea Bart Andreone (16:17) close to three. I wanted some time. I was really, really enjoying just like feeling healthy and raising a baby and not rushed to have another one. And so I thought, okay, well, when she like goes into preschool, then I can try to do this again. And this time I did get pregnant right away. And was pretty sick right away as well. And my doctor found this team that like sends an IV, like teaches you guys, like a couple to do their own IVs. And I was set up to give myself, to put a port into my belly every morning with an IV that I wore as a pack. Michelle (17:01) Mm. Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (17:16) that was to help me to stop throwing up. And unfortunately, I feel like, you know, anything I deal with, like there's research that comes out like a year or two later that like, that could have helped me in that situation, but unfortunately it didn't. But the medicine that was given to me at the time is no longer on the market for pregnancies because it can stop the heart from beating. So in... Michelle (17:33) wow. Uh-huh. my gosh, wow. Shea Bart Andreone (17:55) you know, at our 12 week ultrasound, which I was hoping to celebrate, was, and talk about like power and instinct. That morning, I felt like something was wrong. And I don't know where that feeling came from, because it's too soon at that point to really feel anything, you know. Michelle (18:15) my gosh. Shea Bart Andreone (18:24) moving around, but I just felt like something was wrong. And I remember looking at the sky and it was like this perfect blue and telling myself that no matter what happens today, that sky is still going to be blue. And just to hold on to like, not everything is lost. And I don't, I really don't even know why I felt this like foreboding, foreshadowing feeling. but Michelle (18:43) Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (18:54) know, the doctor was, we were waiting in the room for the doctor and my husband was joking around and I said, I don't know, I don't feel like joking around. you know, when the doctor came in all friendly right away, I said, don't feel, I feel like some, I was very straightforward in a way that I don't think I usually am. And I was right, there was no heartbeat. Michelle (19:03) Mm-hmm. Wow. Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (19:21) and I was too far along to like have anything done in the office. So I had to get checked into the hospital and yeah, it was really, really rough and awful because I felt like... I tried so hard to do the right thing and to like keep everybody healthy. And it was awful doing like, you know, the port and injecting myself every day and all of that. And it still didn't work. So we ended up naming that baby, the name that I... Michelle (19:43) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (20:08) show is with my, what I thought with my husband, but he didn't really like it. And I said, I know you didn't really like this name, but can I use it for this baby? And in that moment, he said, yep, but why don't you give all the other names that we're not gonna use next time. And that was the first time I heard him agree, like, we'll try again. Michelle (20:13) you wow. Shea Bart Andreone (20:34) I hadn't thought that, like, guess it was, like, it was a lot for me, but I knew I wanted to try, but I kind of felt like, like I said about advice that came from others, like, it felt like everything in the universe was saying, you have gone through enough, take your one child, be grateful and move on. And for him to say, we will try again, it just gave me such a sense of relief that we were on the same page. But we did agree that no matter what happened, this would be the last time because our daughter couldn't live through that again. And we couldn't, you know, do that. So we were gonna, so we tried again this time with no medication and only an IV for fluid. So I... Michelle (20:59) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (21:24) It's strange, hyperemesis is a weird thing. Like I definitely got it all three times that I was pregnant, but with the first one and the third one, the time of day that I could eat was totally different. I, with this, the last pregnancy, I could eat something in the morning, but once like one o'clock came, that's it. Like the gate was closed. Like there's no more putting any food or liquid into your body. Michelle (21:30) Mm-hmm. huh. Shea Bart Andreone (21:54) so I did what I can, like I did what I could to eat before that time. and you know, we navigated it and, and I had a healthy baby boy. so I, I am very, very grateful and definitely, I'm aware, especially when I talk to others that are in the middle of their story. Michelle (22:07) amazing. Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (22:24) that You don't know how your journey is going to end. really don't know how you're going to get to where you get to. But, I know it's so cliche, like, whatever is supposed to happen, like the end of the story, it works out in the end. Like whether or not you get the biological child or adoption or foster or five dogs. Michelle (22:56) Yeah. Yeah. Shea Bart Andreone (22:58) you find peace at some point. I, my heart, yeah, my heart goes out to the people that are still in that journey and they don't have the ending yet. Michelle (23:02) Yeah, I mean that makes sense. Yeah, it's the ending. It's, things start to make sense at the end. And then you realize, had it not been for that exact moment, the genetics, all the alignment wouldn't be that exact child that you have. And, you know, obviously when you're holding that child in your hands, you're like, I wouldn't change this for anything. but sometimes it can be really scary because when you're going through it, you're walking into like a dark room, cause you have no idea how things are going to play out. Shea Bart Andreone (23:37) Yeah. Yeah. Michelle (23:38) And that the unknown, as we know, is like the scariest things for humans. all, nobody likes that. It's just the unknown. And especially when it comes to such a strong desire that is so primal. Yeah. Shea Bart Andreone (23:43) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so universal. mean, it's just procreating. That's what we think we're wired. I mean, we are wired and we think that we're meant to do it and it doesn't work out that way for everybody. So in all of that, for me though, especially in the miscarriage part, I felt like Michelle (23:59) Yep. Yeah. Shea Bart Andreone (24:21) I didn't know who to go to and I didn't know where to, like, didn't feel, obviously I had at the time, like a three year old. And so either everyone around me in my circle at the time had a second child already or was trying to. And I didn't, I don't want to go to those people in that time. So I ended up calling a friend of mine who had also lost several babies at the same week because I needed very specific support at that time. Like someone who really Michelle (25:00) wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's somebody who can understand. Shea Bart Andreone (25:09) Yeah, like understand exactly. And I talked to her and then she maybe led me to someone else. And I discovered that each woman that I spoke to had felt such a loss of control with their trajectory of what they had planned. that they found activities that they could control to keep them a little bit grounded. It's such an ungrounding time. And one of them was like painting pottery, you know, plant pots. One ran a marathon. One was cooking and started to become a chef. Michelle (25:45) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (26:06) And I realized that there were these like stories of activities that have, and, you know, hobbies or whatnot that came out of this. And I, I was like, okay, I got to find my, activity. So, and, and like I said, like something I can control, something I can, you know, seek from start to finish and have an outcome. Michelle (26:07) wow. Shea Bart Andreone (26:36) because I can't do that with a baby. Michelle (26:36) Mm-hmm. That's so interesting. This is the first time I've ever heard anybody put it in that way. I find it so interesting and I think that is really powerful. Shea Bart Andreone (26:48) Yeah, it made sense to me once I realized this common thread. I was like, I get it. So I took up sewing and realized really quickly that is not going to be my thing. was one of those things I was always curious about and I like maybe took an eighth grade and didn't totally understand it. And so I was like, I'm going to try it now. And I was like, Michelle (26:57) Mm-hmm. Which that happens too. Shea Bart Andreone (27:18) Nope, don't have any control over this either. But I was writing and I decided, that is something that I can do and I really love it and it can be an outlet for me. And so I decided to, because I couldn't think about anything else, to compile these stories from people. Michelle (27:19) Yeah. Shea Bart Andreone (27:47) and their hurdles and their stories of trying to become a parent. And that is how the book, Carry On, came to be. And it is stories of infertility and adoption and fostering. And most stories in the book have a happy ending, but not all the stories in the book. Michelle (27:57) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (28:18) And yeah, mean, a lot of them, like when you're in the, if you, before you get to the end of that chapter for that person, you're like, whew. But there, you know, every story has a beginning, a middle and an end. so it's been, it, it, it's been wild to, interview people and learn about people. And you know, it is, because it's. Michelle (28:29) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (28:47) It's my book and I put it together with all these different people. I thought I was done with it a couple of years ago. And again, talk about control and you think you're going to put a deadline on yourself and it has a life of its own. But I made a fairly new friend in the last few years. Michelle (28:56) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Things change. Shea Bart Andreone (29:17) And we got to know each other over something completely unrelated to fertility. And it was actually like activism against violence for something. we just connected and realized like, we should be friends, but we were so busy focusing on the cause that it took like a couple of months for us to get together and go for a walk before I like. looked at her and said, so what do you do? Who are you? And she asked the same of me and I said, you I'm working on this book. And she said, if I had known you before, I probably would have been a chapter in your book. Michelle (29:49) Yeah. my gosh, wow. Shea Bart Andreone (30:05) And it took me another couple of months of getting to know her and realizing that like, actually her story really does belong in this book and it is my book. So even though it's been done for a while, I'm adding it. So her story is one of the chapters in the book and she's the one that drew the line in the sand and said, I am never doing IVF. Like that's as far as I'll go. Michelle (30:16) Mmm. Wow. Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (30:34) And if she didn't do IVF, she wouldn't have her child. Michelle (30:41) Wow, it's amazing how that happens. Shea Bart Andreone (30:44) Yeah, and she and her story is really fascinating too because Like mine, her health was at risk, you know, in order to have her child, but she, you know, went through 20 weeks of pregnancy with twins via IVF and unfortunately she lost those babies. And then, you know, knew what to expect the next time around. But when she wanted a second child, it was just too much for her to like endure again, but it wasn't an option for her to not have a second child. So her second child is actually adopted from Ethiopia. Michelle (31:33) my is beautiful. Shea Bart Andreone (31:36) So it's a pretty amazing story. Michelle (31:40) That's amazing. That's so beautiful. I had a guest, a previous guest, Dr. Lisa Miller. She wrote The Awakened Brain. She has an incredible story and it was, she was struggling to conceive for years with her husband. She had a voice in her head that kept saying, would you adopt if you had a child? If you were able to conceive, would you adopt? And she kept saying no. And then, Shea Bart Andreone (31:48) yeah. Michelle (32:04) one day randomly they saw something on TV. think they were either, I don't know if she was in hospital or a hotel. I don't remember exactly what it was, but like the TV wouldn't change. And it was stuck on this channel of a child that didn't have parents and her heart just blew wide open. and her husband as well. And they're like, that's it. We're adopting. The second they decided to adopt and they got everything in order, she conceived. And she was meant to have her adoptive child. It was like something was calling her in that direction. She kept putting it off. And then all of sudden, boom, like in the right time, it was like, that was it. And then what happened was she heard that voice again in her mind. if you were able to conceive naturally, would you still adopt? And she said, absolutely yes. Like after she decided and saw the child and it was just so powerful and she was getting all kinds of crazy signs. There was a duck that left an embryo in her door. It was right after she had a challenge conceiving. was just, it was so crazy. Like all these weird signs and it just tells you that they were part of a very cosmic intelligence. there's got to be some kind of order that we're part of because it can't you can't explain that otherwise. There's something else. There's some other kind of divine intelligence. Yeah, yep. Shea Bart Andreone (33:31) Yeah, whatever you want to call it, it's out there. So did she end up adopting a child and having a biological child? Michelle (33:40) Yep. Yep. And she feels that her adoptive child is her child. Like that was the child she was meant to have. And then also her child and they were also meant to be together. It's amazing. It's just so wild on so many levels, Shea Bart Andreone (33:56) Yeah, yeah, I just met someone I did a panel for a fertility expo and the woman sitting next to me had dealt with secondary infertility and had no issue getting pregnant with her first child and then her second child just she could not get pregnant, could not get pregnant and they had been on a list for fostering. kids and I didn't go like she wasn't ever planning to adopt but just to help other people and to take in another child and she was thinking she was going to get like a teenager and somehow they were called randomly like two years ago with a newborn that was available and so she has raised that you know baby since birth and Michelle (34:29) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (34:52) now is trying to adopt the baby. of course, two years, you know, year and a half into having that baby, she did get pregnant and now has three children. Michelle (34:55) wow. Wow. wow. you just don't know how and that's the part of relinquishing control. Like we know we have the desire and the desire is there for a reason. We just, we almost have to rely on that divine intelligence for the how. I think that that's what it is. And when we fight that, that's where I feel like it doesn't stop like you from having it eventually, but it stops the process. It delays it. think when we fight Shea Bart Andreone (35:17) Yeah. Yep. Michelle (35:30) that divine intelligence, that flow that's trying to move you in a certain direction. Shea Bart Andreone (35:34) Yeah, it's really true. And also, I don't know why I keep coming back to this today, but that middle part of the story, you have to find a way to be uncomfortable in that disequilibrium and manage it, because it's not going to stay like that. It won't. Yeah. Michelle (35:50) Mm-hmm. Right. This too shall pass. Shea Bart Andreone (36:01) Even like in every situation, every, like this week, my daughter was expecting to get, she had worked really, really hard for a slot and an opportunity to do something. And they were looking at 10 people and knocking it down to six. And she ended up in the bottom four and did not get that opportunity. And I'm shocked. She's shocked, she's devastated. Michelle (36:28) Mm. Shea Bart Andreone (36:30) And as a parent, have that like, don't really want to be more upset for them. Like there's a fine line. You got to balance like your own emotions before you like, you know, and I just like the last couple of days, I've been like, okay, what's going to happen next? Because somehow something is going to make this better. Like, and I know something will happen. Like, but I feel like I'm on the edge of my seat sort of waiting for news. Michelle (36:37) Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yep. Shea Bart Andreone (37:00) and that is familiar to me for like, you know, all the waiting and the waiting and the waiting of like, well, what's going to happen? Something is going to happen. Something exciting at some point. And you might have some pretty upsetting moments along the way, but something is going to happen. Michelle (37:21) Yes, I actually remember hearing, I don't remember where it was, but it was a rabbi who said that there was like a saying that everything in the end works out. And if it's not working out or everything in the end is good. And if it's not good, it's not the end. And I'm like, I love that. Yeah. Shea Bart Andreone (37:36) at the end. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I definitely feel that way. but we get like, it's so global. It's so like, you know, whatever your politics are, you can feel like, shoot, you know, that happened. You know, like, we feel this universally, like many, many times, and it shifts, things shift. And then, yeah, and the story ends. Michelle (38:03) They do. Yes. Yeah. Things definitely shift. I'm also kind of into Kabbalah right now, like, cause it's very similar to quantum physics. And I love that, how Joe Dispenza talks about that. But I find that a lot of like ancient traditions teach about, and these are things that aren't necessarily, you don't need to see them as like a religion per se. It's actually a way of life. It's almost like a science of life. And they talk about how, things do come up. It is really for your soul to evolve. And sometimes those difficult things, like the second we react to them, then we sort of block ourselves off from the light and that like wisdom. But when we allow them, and this is, you know, they talked about it in Zen Buddhism, that's truly going with the flows. Like even when things are not comfortable, if you just allow for it to move and don't fight it. with the non-resistance, then it actually helps to grow your soul, your spirit, your personality, your mind, your ability to handle things. It's pretty wild, but in some senses that challenge is what helps us. And the same thing if you look at a butterfly or even like a plant coming out of a seed and that hard shell and that fighting and that challenge of trying to get through. so it's painful, but they do it in that That aspect of it, the difficulty, the challenge is really what helps us to become more of ourselves. Shea Bart Andreone (39:44) Yeah, to get to the other side. Michelle (39:46) Yeah, it's pretty wild. But like you said, it's universal. It could be applied to anything in your life. It could be applied to anything, to getting a job, to marrying the right partner. And it's very similar and also just any kind of challenges that happen in your life. And I've seen it so many times, just like you, like so many stories of people that had they looked at their history and said, okay, well, since I've never gotten pregnant, Shea Bart Andreone (40:01) Yeah. Michelle (40:12) before, like the one we just spoke about eight years of never getting pregnant, you could look at the history and say, based on the history and since it's been so long, that's going to probably be my future. And logically, it makes sense to think like that, but it's not necessarily the case for many people. Shea Bart Andreone (40:15) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that belief of holding and hope, hope is like. Michelle (40:35) Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (40:38) That's such a challenging topic because it is the first thing to go, I think, when you're challenged and faced with a big hurdle to overcome. It's hard to think you can hold on to any sort of hope, but that's pretty much the key. Michelle (41:00) Yeah, it is. it's so interesting that it's so hard because the journey by itself, you're also faced with a lot of professionals that are giving you stats and numbers. And sometimes when you go into that, that's like a hope killer. It'll immediately say, well, I guess you can't really do it because look at your numbers are terrible. And based on this, it's just not possible for you. And so many people still conceive despite that and have healthy children, know, births. So it's interesting how also the journey, the fertility journey just happens to be one that you're faced with a lot of hope killers in general. And so having to really stay grounded and really stay close to that desire and keep that like in your heart. is very challenging. and you mentioned something that was actually really powerful. And I think that that is something that everybody should be given as a resource is just community connecting with people that know exactly what you're going through. And having that support is tremendous. And it's just nowadays, it's getting better than it used to. I feel like it used to be worse. Now we have social media. We have lots of groups, we're connecting. And I think that that's huge. And I think that people who go through miscarriages doctors should be required to give them resources because you're dealing with a traumatic event and then you're sent home. And I think that that is not right. It's, it's like unethical to not provide support for people going through that. Shea Bart Andreone (42:44) I agree, and I think that is a big flaw in our medical community, like our medical world. takes, I mean, I don't want to be, put anybody in boxes, but the majority of the people who become doctors are very cerebral and understand the logistics of the physical body and don't always necessarily take into account the emotional side. Michelle (43:13) Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (43:14) I would say most for me of the doctors that I have seen don't handle the emotional stuff very well. And I think we're learning that mental health is such a massive, massive element that cannot be ignored and needs the attention. And I do think when you said it's getting better community wise, it is, from what it start like... There, know, hundreds of years ago and in other countries still today, community is everything surrounding people. And I would say Western medicine has, you know, unfortunately kind of cut that out. And like even in other countries, I think it's France where you're, once you have a baby, you're, you're provided with physical therapy for the woman who gave, you for you as a woman. Michelle (43:49) Yeah, it's just true. Yeah. Shea Bart Andreone (44:12) You're given attention to heal yourself. And here we're sent home. You just had a baby. Bye. You're good. Not even 24 hours of any instruction. If you adopt a baby, you have to go through many, many, many hours of training. But on the other side, if you just birthed your own baby, you're sent home. Good luck. Michelle (44:20) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Shea Bart Andreone (44:39) So yeah, would say lack of community is still huge. And yes, you can find that online, but... Michelle (44:49) Right. It's not the same as actually having a physical community. Shea Bart Andreone (44:52) Yeah, and we still don't provide that for each other. And there's no wonder to me why doulas and midwives and lactation consultants and postpartum doulas are in such high demand. And unfortunately, that's a luxury. Michelle (45:13) Mm-hmm. Right, right. It's a luxury and it's expensive. Not everybody can afford it. Shea Bart Andreone (45:17) Yeah, but I understand the need for it. It makes perfect sense to me because it's like we're thrown into this dark tunnel without any light provided. It would be nice for someone to sit by your side and tell you how it's going to go. And yes, mothers and sisters and friends can do that to an extent, but yeah, it feels like there's a need. Michelle (45:21) Yep. Shea Bart Andreone (45:47) And yes, you can Google anything and you will find out. Michelle (45:51) It's not quite the same. Actually, if anything, it gives you more anxiety. It's so important. And I think that it's true. I, as you're talking, I'm like, this is basically the building blocks of society. Like if you have a good foundation that's done with love and wisdom and carries on like traditions and history that people have learned from and can teach it. I mean, it feels like almost there's a gap because Shea Bart Andreone (45:54) Yeah. Michelle (46:21) It used to be that way really back in the day. And then there was this gap with industrial age and we've sort of gotten more separated and now we're thirsting for it. And there is a very big demand for that. Shea Bart Andreone (46:35) Yeah, yeah. So that I, you know, not that a book can can cover that, but I feel like the aspect of why I chose to write this is just if it could help one person not feel as alone as I felt before I started finding these people. That's the goal because I just, think even people who can find access to other people sometimes are afraid to like make that like leap to go find a support group or talk to other people. Like, you know, I have a friend right now, a very close friend dealing with cancer and she has three kids and there are so many groups available to them to... Michelle (47:25) I'm sorry to hear that. Shea Bart Andreone (47:33) speak to others who are dealing exactly with what they're dealing with, but they don't want to go. Yeah. I, you know, whatever way someone can find that community, whether it's through a podcast or, you know, or a group in the park or a Facebook group or, you know, Michelle (47:37) Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. It's so personal. Shea Bart Andreone (48:01) or in a book, just hope for people that they find people to connect to so they don't feel alone. Michelle (48:09) Yeah. I love that you wrote this book. think having stories is so powerful and just knowing these true stories and that people went through them and then you can relate to the challenges and then you can see how it ends for some people. I think that it's so powerful not to feel alone. I think that that's the big key is just not feeling alone. And like you said, the key is hope. So for people who are listening to this, and I'm sure a lot of people are going to be wanting to look at this book right now, how can they find the book? How can they find out more about you? Shea Bart Andreone (48:44) My website is sheabartandrioni.com and the book is available on Amazon. It's also available in certain bookstores. You can walk into your local bookstore and order it through them if they don't have it. And the book is called Carry On and the subtitle is True Stories of the Heartbreak and Wonder of Trying to Start a Family. Michelle (49:15) Well, first of all, I really enjoyed this conversation with you today, Shay. This is really so heartfelt and it just, it was so symbolic of like the power of the human spirit and going through that and just everything that you shared today and opening up and I really appreciate you coming on. I really, really enjoyed this conversation with you Shea Bart Andreone (49:36) Thank you. Thank you. was nice to meet you. Michelle (49:40) same. And also just for the listeners, if you guys want all of the links that Shay just mentioned are going to be in the episode notes, so you don't have to memorize everything that you just heard. You could just go back to the episode notes. So thank you so much for coming on today, Shay. Shea Bart Andreone (49:55) You're most welcome.