Alastair Campbell

heavy week.

But Rory, where shall we start?

Well, I was thinking about this.

So as you know, Roy, I love football, but I would not argue about football tactics with Pep Guardiola.

I wouldn't argue with Margaret Atwood about how to construct a novel.

And I would definitely not argue about theology with the Pope.

And that is not because I believe in papal infallibility.

I don't.

But I know that to get where he is, he has had to devote his whole life to theology and to impressing a lot of people in the Catholic Church that he knows his stuff.

J.D.

Vance got to where he is.

Because Donald Trump put him there.

And as you say, he's become a Catholic.

He's frankly writing a book about this wonderful conversion.

And he genuinely thinks he can argue with the Pope on theology.

So does Mike Johnson, the speaker.

So does Pete Hexeth.

And this is what happens, I think, with cults.

You know how Sean Hannity, the kind of well-known MAGA broadcaster, say, I no longer consider myself a Catholic because of this row going on between Trump and the Pope.

In other words, if I have to choose the Pope or Trump, I'm going to go with Trump.