Alistair Campbell

What we are saying, I'm saying two things.

One, the only other body in the world right now that might get even remotely close to American power and Chinese power is Europe.

That's the European Union plus.

And I think part of this Mark Carney post-Trump world...

we should be thinking about accelerating enlargement rather than slowing it down.

We should maybe be thinking about having different sorts of associations with the European Union for those countries that aren't fully ready.

But Europe is the only one that can remotely embrace that power.

And from the United Kingdom's point of view, that means we have to get closer and we have to undo the damage of Brexit as fast as we can.

They've threatened Mark Carney over his trade deal with China.

You see, I would argue that the coalition of the willing, so-called, in relation to Ukraine, which Keir Starmer has played a pretty leading role in, that is a form of the new sort of politics that Carney's talking about.

I think middle powers could do something very interesting and very soft power focused and

in replacing and undoing the damage that Trump has done by scrapping USAID.

Now, we're not in a strong position on that because we've cut aid as well.

But if you think about some of those middle powers I mentioned, France, Germany, Japan, Korea, Australia, Canada, UK, coming together and saying, we are going to try to fix the damage that has been done by USAID vacating the field.

What I thought was really clever about the way that Carney handled himself last week and in China, he didn't even talk about Trump.

He just talked about this is a new world and we have to address it.

We know what the context is, but I think there's lots of ways, I think in energy, I think in cyber, I think in misinformation and disinformation.

These right-wing autocratic networks of which Trump is now the sort of head, they operate together, they operate as a team, they pump out the same messages in the same way, they use the technology in the same way.

The progressive side of life, they've got to form alliances to do that as well as the right do it.

And what it means, by the way, I know they're sorry to keep going about Carney, but I really did think he was impressive last week.