Andrew Revkin

So that's the guy, right?

And then he gets to energy, and the guy says, you know, the same guy who believes God controls the environment says, you know, we have half of our roof covered with solar panels, and we want to get off the grid entirely.

And when I show this to audiences, I say, just pause and think about that for a second.

Why do you think that's happening?

And it's because he's independent.

He wants to have his own source of power.

He's libertarian.

He doesn't want the government telling him what to do.

He would never vote for Hillary, I guarantee you.

This is 2015.

But he wanted to get off the grid entirely to be his own...

To be himself.

And so then I say, okay, so if you were going around the country with your climate crisis placard and you go to Woodward County, do you think that would be a productive way to go to that place and make your case?

And the answer is pretty obvious.

No.

If you go in there and you listen, like listening is such an important property that we all forget, including journalists.

Yeah.

you're much more apt to find a path to cooperation.

You could talk to him about, I guarantee if I went there today, maybe I should go to talk about this new bill of $370 billion.

How do we make that work at the local level?