Antoine Le Nel
speaker
219 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard Oct 2024
last heard Oct 2024
Antoine Le Nel’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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creatives that were quite generic. And after two weeks, we saw it was a disaster and we just cut it off. We don't wait for the campaign to finish. It's like, you know what, this is just not happening. There's no way this will pick up. And you just cut it, you know, while maybe in other places you would just have continued and say, you know what, we're here.
And then we'll do the retrospective at the end of it. So, no, I mean, it's not working. It's not working. You just cut it, you know, and fine. Your TV campaign was supposed to run, let's say, for three months. Well, after two weeks, it's just not working. You just cut it and then you move on. You know, it's fine.
You mentioned kind of growth engine when you started that on what enables Revolut to continue growing so fast. What actually is a growth engine? I know it sounds strange, but we often hear it. What does that actually mean?
A growth engine is where you have multiple components that all play together. I'll give you a very simple example. I look at it quite the famous full funnel, you know, that everyone says. So you have... The upper funnel, the mid funnel, and the lower funnel. And the growth engine is when you manage to get those three elements working together.
So at the end of the day, the growth engine is when you make sure that you have the lower funnel that works like a fishing net, grabs all the conversions that ultimately mid and upper funnel are feeding you with. And that's where all of that works in perfect synchronization, so that at the end of the day, it's all being grabbed by the lower funda.
That is the engine, when then you find the right balance between those different elements that optimize the overall thing. What is the right balance? Well, it depends on the maturity of the market. I think the more mature, the more you will be able to do some upper funnel. The less mature, the more you focus on the conversion, on the conversion itself. There's no one truth.
It evolves, you know, it's a living animal. What's the hardest thing about constructing a growth engine? It is the measurement framework, that's for sure. You live in a world, especially in tech, where people do things that they can measure. There's always this bias, you know, there's always this bias.
And at the end of the day, your competitive advantage will always come from your ability to measure more than your competitors, because then suddenly you're going to do that. So, for example, at King, what we cracked, we cracked the TV measurement framework way before everyone, and therefore we were the only company running TV. What do you mean you cracked the TV measurement framework?
So we were able to have some good level of attribution between TV and the downloads to be able to really know how much we could attribute to our TV activities. And because we managed to get that, then we were one of the very first companies to actually make that work. I think this is a very good example. The other good example is iOS, performance marketing on iOS after scan.
And you have companies that know how this works, and therefore they can measure it, and therefore they can scale. And you have all the other ones that are really struggling and so on. At the end of the day, they spend maybe two, three times more on Android versus iOS, which is a nonsense. When should you start thinking about building a growth engine? At the very, very, very beginning.
At the very, very beginning. Because the growth engine is not only paid marketing. I include virality. The whole virality aspect is part of the growth engine. Even below the lower funnel, you basically have virality. So you need to build this block super, super early on, and then you start going into the lower funnel, and then you go up.
Given virality is baked in, should growth teams be part of product teams? Should they be standalone teams?
That is a very good question. I think the way I like it is that the product team builds the variety engine and growth operates it. So you build something that is with parameters and then you let growth play with it. Because usually growth will have better analytical framework to measure the ROI and the efficiency of it.
while product will have a better product vision and UX aspect into building it. So they build the experience and growth operates it. I think that works for me.
What are the most common ways that growth engines break down?
I think it's when you start bringing a little bit of belief. I think the less you believe in, the better it is. I have no belief in anything. I have no belief in anything. You're so French. Sure.
But like, it's true, you know, because... What does that mean, I have no belief in anything?
Well, I don't necessarily believe more in brand than in influencers, than in this and so on, you know? I mean, whatever works, works for me, you know? And I think there are some people that believe in things, and then, you know what, Formula One, it got to work. We got to be on a Formula One wing. It got to work. It's like, why? Yes, maybe, I don't know. Sure, yeah, fine.
But you see, I think this is where it starts to break down, is when you come up with just like... But this kind of goes against everything that we're told of the courage of your conviction and being opinionated and standing for something. And playbooks, the value of experienced operators is they bring a playbook, Antoine. So they know what works.
So I've brought my playbook from King to Revolut. But I've significantly changed it. I mean... What did you change most? Well, so for example, the upper funnel. I was never a big fan of upper funnel. I thought that was very difficult.
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