Barack Obama

Yeah.

And it's just a way for us to stay in touch.

There's a very particular ping that comes up when he's played.

And if I haven't turned my phone off, I could be in the middle of negotiations on a nuclear treaty.

And that thing goes off.

There's a part of me that's like, you know what?

I wonder what he played.

So all that is shaping.

the political environment in ways that even when you and I talked in 2015, that didn't exist.

And now the interesting thing is podcasting, obviously it's gotten segmented and it's getting chopped up so that people don't listen to a whole conversation.

On the video and all that stuff.

There is still, I think, a power in just people listening to conversations if they listen to the whole thing.

That I think is different.

Yeah.

You and Rogan, I guess, came up – started right around the same time, right?

And it was interesting to me when people started criticizing –

I don't know, Bernie or somebody else for going on Rogan.

It's like, well, why wouldn't you?

Yeah, of course.

If you have time to go have a conversation with somebody, then that is consistent with democracy.