Bob Kagan

You know, the only...

I've outflanked you.

That's what I was wanting to do.

I've outflanked you.

You turned the tables, Tim.

You have pretty successfully turned the tables.

But can I give a partially serious maybe answer?

I was hoping for a partially serious answer.

So here's the thing.

I mean, Trump is setting us up now for greater challenges coming from Russia and China, in my opinion.

They were already going to be a challenge, but now I think they're going to be a much greater challenge.

And I think that we have increased the likelihood that China will at some point either absorb Taiwan peacefully or take it through a

through a blockade or some other measure.

I think we are essentially encouraging the next war in Europe if Putin decides to do something.

And then the question comes, at what point does this sort of retreat

get to the point where it's too far for Americans.

They actually don't want to retreat anymore.

And this, of course, is sort of what happened before World War II, which was, well, Italy invaded Ethiopia, and then there was the Spanish Civil War, and the Nazis and the fascists involved in that.

And then there was the Anschluss with Austria.

And we were all like, we don't care.