Charles Schwartz

Oh, Mark Devine.

And if you ask Mark, you're like, okay, where do, where do leaders lead from?

He goes, leaders lead from a point where it's never from the front.

They need to know that you can be led from the front, but you want your team to pull you off the line and say, listen, you're ineffective here.

I need you to keep your eye doing all this other stuff because you have all this experience and all these other things going on.

So it's these pivots that we do.

The reason I ask this and I bring it up, Mark, is when we come into these situations and you have your values.

And you have someone else in your business's values that you need them to do something, right?

You're like, hey, I've got this.

You're in this division.

I really need this division to execute on this, this, and this.

However, this division is a pain in the ass.

It's always HR.

It's always HR.

And HR is typically ABC.

I will die on that rock, by the way.

HR.

Oh, God.

So when you're in that situation and you've got two different orgs,

that are above two different organizations in your org and they have different values and they're conflicting.