Chris Robbins

So when I read that, it just speaks to not only maybe some of the breakthroughs that I had for myself, but also just I'm often sharing this work with other men who are often...

you know, it's not when you're in the middle of it, certainly for the salmon in the middle of the river, like it's not always that, it's not always that apparent.

And of course, a lot easier to sit in the eddy and catch your breath than really go for it.

And so this is a lot of what I find myself in conversation about is finding that

At least discussing what could be true.

Yeah.

And then trying to inch ourselves towards that rushing water.

I mean, I think the way you describe it is spot on.

I mean, it's...

If you take the salmon out of it, I often think about it kind of like Superman must feel right before he breaks his face through the brick wall and sort of gets to the other side, if you will.

But that is where the most...

or to what you were saying, Mel, just about resistance and how, of course, resistance pops up often and just fear.

Yeah.

Sure.

I'm a bad influence.