Creon Butler

speaker

276 appearances 2 recordings 1 series first heard Jun 2026 last heard 7 Aug

Creon Butler’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.

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Recordings per month over the last 12 months — 2 in all, peaking in Aug 2026 with 1.

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Independent Thinking · Rules against power: Does the world need a new economic alliance to balance the US and China? · 5 Jun 2026 podcast

be sufficiently strong to defend itself against Russia.

In the case of uh Japan and South Korea, for example, where they don't have, if you like, the critical mass that the EU would have and are much more dependent on the US, I think one of the questions is are they actually using their leverage with the US as effectively as they might?

So the US sees China as its major long-term challenge.

Its relationship with Japan and South Korea is crucial for that, you would think.

And yet at the moment in the trade negotiations, it's like Japan and South Korea are giving to the US, as has been the seen with the sort of investment commitments that have made been made.

Whereas in fact, you would think they have quite a lot of leverage vis-a-vis the US in terms of the US needing that relationship in order to continue its policy vis-a-vis China.

So I think the answer would be to get that.

That security independence you will have different solutions for different members of the poll.

So in a way, uh yes.

I mean, my my argument is actually countries that follow a rules based system do not have protection, do not deploy coercion actually in the medium to longer term, again to grow faster than the countries that follow those policies.

So in that sense it will become a more attractive and more sustainable uh economic space.

No, I I I don't disagree.

I think in a sense there are two stages.

So there is the first stage where you have the US and China far ahead in the digital economy, particularly in AI.

And then there the crucial thing is that the rest of the world is able to regulate the use of that AI in a way that's consistent with its own economic objectives and its own social requirements and so on.

It is.

And you know, at times the US has threatened that.

I mean China potentially threatens that.

But the advantage of a big economic space like the Third Pole is it will be easier for those countries to, if you like, use Chinese AI, use US AI, but on their terms.

Now the second stage is and I think um Is that possible?

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