Dan Hesse
speaker
1,215 appearances
7 recordings
1 series
first heard Dec 2025
last heard 11 Apr
Dan Hesse’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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recordings per month · last 12 monthsRecordings per month over the last 12 months — 7 in all, peaking in Feb 2026 with 2.
Appearances
And I don't know if it's a fair way to say it, but it really sounds as though defiance, the way you define it, is really practicing character under pressure.
It absolutely is, because one of the things about defiance and bringing this into even a business school environment is that we often teach our students many different analytical skills, but we don't teach them as much about character and how to enact some of our values and how to do that.
So I think it is definitely an important aspect of defiance.
Well, one of the things that we didn't talk about today that you do go through in your book, that there are consequences.
that people do need to understand that there are consequences for saying yes.
In the case of, we'll call it the NASA executives that didn't listen to their engineers and the Challenger blew up, or consequences for the two rookie cops who were with Chauvin in Detroit who didn't stand up.
But there are also consequences for blowing the whistle.
Oh, the guys from Brown and Williamson, I can't think of his name.
Jeffrey Mygand.
Yeah.
Very briefly, how do you think about how how should one think about consequences?
When we think about, we often think about the cost of defiance.
This is what holds us back a lot.
We think about losing a job, losing a relationship, and we forget that staying silent isn't neutral.
There's also a cost of staying silent.
So you could cause harm to yourself.
You could cause harm to other people.
And actually the harm to yourself is shown to be quite a lot that we forget.
Like if you're constantly disregarding your values, it can lead to anxiety, depression, chronic inflammation,
so many different ailments that we don't want to lose that side of the equation when we're thinking about if you're going to do a cost-benefit analysis, understand what you're giving up by staying silent.
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