David Plouffe

How are you driving it?

Is it reaching voters you need to reach?

And I think that is where we've been deficient.

So I think the qualifications for a leader have changed.

And here's the thing.

If you're a safe Democrat or Republican in a caucus, you probably still care a lot about the inside stuff.

Sure.

Committee assignments and fundraising and whatever.

But if you are running in a competitive district, what you care about is, is that person helping me?

So I think the requirements of a leader have changed quite dramatically over the last couple of decades.

Well, we should do a whole episode on this, Tim.

Or not.

It's painful.

you know, like you, I've thought a lot about this.

I mean, the really only realistic chance we had for a Democrat to win would be in 23, not 24, in 23 if Joe Biden said he wasn't going to run and we would have an open primary.

Whether Kamala emerged or someone else, they would have been a fully formed person.

There would have been a lot more understanding of biography, where they were going to be different from Biden, the same, what their economic vision was.

This is where her point about time is important.

Like when she got into the race,

If I recall in swing – with swing voters in swing states, like less than 30 percent of the people knew she had even been a prosecutor.