Dr. Christof (Christoph) Koch

But very often it's sort of going to the void, having these feelings of terror and ecstasy or awe.

And if you think about the etymology of the word awful,

Full of awe.

When you, for example, theologians talk about the mysterium tremendum, for example, this Otto, the theologian.

When you're in the presence of God, you have this, this is awful, the terror and the ecstasy.

And that's what you...

This is what you can experience.

So I'm never going to do it again, never, ever.

Now you're done?

It's been offered to me now.

The toad, it's called the toad, because it comes ultimately from the glands of the original stuff, comes from the gland of the Sonora desert toad.

It's given me its gift, and I don't ever need to do this again.

But it's useful, both as a student of consciousness as well as as being a human.

Well, think about dreaming.

When you dream, Andrew, are you directing the show?

No, I wish.

I've tried, yeah.

So things happen to you, but you don't have insights.

It's a little bit like that.

Things happen to you, you fly, you meet long lost lovers or friends or pets, but the you is strangely muted.