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164 appearances 7 recordings 4 series first heard Nov 2024 last heard May 2025

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The Home Service Expert Podcast · Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Chris Voss · 13 Dec 2024 podcast

So, yeah, I do it intentionally.

Well, which part?

Yeah, right. So judging a book by its cover. You make people feel like they're a commodity. You might be right. See, here's the thing. People are afraid to be wrong. Like, all right, so you can and should make somewhat of an assessment of people based on what you see. But then take that as a hypothesis and an experiment. And then there's always much more interesting stuff underneath people.

Like fascinating. And I love getting... underneath. Like my favorite thing is to have conversations, which I have regularly where somebody says to me, like, I don't know that I told anybody that, or I haven't talked about that in 20 years. Like, I love that. You know, I want, I want to find out what you're about. You know, I want to find out interesting things about you and where I'm at now.

This almost horrifies the guys managing my company, my general manager, you know, the integrator us model. when we're interviewing people, I will find out something wacky about them that he hasn't found out, which he's afraid. I'm talking to a guy not that long ago and pretty soon we get into the conversation.

He casually throws off being at a seance in his ex-girlfriend's house that she grew up in that was a haunted house. And I'm like, I am digging into this. Yeah. And my GM, his head is just hanging now because he's like, there's no way we're ever going to hire this guy. And I should have found this out before he talked to Chris because I'm never going to hear the end of this. Yeah.

And so it's almost a contest now to see if you can find out the wackiest thing about the people that are coming to work for us. But yeah, and the guy didn't mind telling me because I was genuinely curious. Like he wasn't going to get the job, but I was fascinated.

And I think, I don't remember the first thing he threw off, but it was something about the way he talked about his ex-girlfriend's house that she grew up in that was a haunted house. He said it like it wasn't that weird. Like somebody would say, yes, you grew up in the Eastern Shore of Long Island. Like that was normal. I'm like, this is going to I'm going to dig into this.

It's going to be interesting. And I think he had a great conversation. So I love finding out about people. What's beneath the surface?

Yeah, no, that's a good point. I do enjoy it. And I don't, I find people fascinating and, I looked up the definition of an anthropologist a few months ago, and it said people were fascinated how systems work and origins. And I'm fascinated by both. I believe there's a practical reason for everything. In many cases, you know, religious dogma was put out there as a practical solution to a problem.

So yeah, what's the practical reason? You know, what's behind this? It's gonna be fascinating no matter what it is. And then, you know, I like trying to figure out life and life's about systems. You're a big systems guy? Yes. Could probably get better at it. I think anybody, as soon as they begin to realize, you know, your habits are your, it's your collection, it's your system.

It's your system of approaching life. What are your habits? What are your systems? How do you get things done? And I got introduced to systems thinking probably about two-thirds of the way through my bureau career and didn't realize I was learning systems. And then just started to realize that everything functions better. If you come up with a system, then you start to tweak it after that.

You know, don't get married to it. Tweak it and things get better.

Right. Yeah. And then comment on the generations. whether it be millennials, baby boomers, Gen X, Gen Z, whatever. I think the top performers of each group have the same attributes. Top performers are ambitious and competitive, but you need both and ethical. Their heart's in the right place. By and large, if your heart's in the wrong place, it's going to catch up with you.

If you're a complete sociopath, you want to have long-term relationships of trust because it's going to catch up to you otherwise. So even the mercenaries realize that long-term trusted relationships are more profitable eventually. But yeah, I look for, I'm hoping to find people that are coachable as opposed to being divas, you know, being a team player. Are you coachable?

And it's not connected to age, generation, ethnicity, or religious preference. None of the demographics. And they're hard to find. And then do they wanna learn? Do they wanna get better? If you're just competitive, There's a real problem with being just competitive. You're limited by the success of your peers. And you'll quit when you're number one.

And if you're just competitive, professionally, you might be an A player. But for you, what you're capable of, you might be a C player of your capability or even a B player. So you need ambition. The person who ultimately they're measuring stick is what they did yesterday, not the people around them. I remember when I was younger, I saw a Nike ad saying there is no finish line.

And I remember thinking like, no finish line? Why should I run? Yeah. But now, like I'm, yeah, there is no finish line, which means there's no limit to what you could be if you stop judging yourself by other people. So you, ambition without ethics gets you, what was her name? Elizabeth Theranos? and everybody to work for. Tremendous ambition. Blood tests. They were faking the blood tests.

They were using other people's machinery. Everybody in that company knew. And I asked myself, so what's the explanation for that? That's ambition with no ethics. They were more than competitive. They want to rule the world. They want to be the best possible, but they dropped their ethics. And then competitive.

You got to be competitive some, because every now and then you need a good slap in the face. When you get beat.

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