Isaac Saul

And I hope we're willing to change their minds a little bit so that this American Life story is about a couple where I actually convinced the Trump voting husband that the 2020 election wasn't stolen, which was something no other media organization he consumed had done.

And I did it by kind of leveling with...

my audience in a human way and talking to them and actually going through the allegations and explaining why they were bullshit basically, but not being condescending about it.

And he trusted me.

And so he changed his mind, which was a really rewarding experience.

And I think it's just like that kind of stuff that has earned trust with people from across the political spectrum for us.

Yeah, look, I mean, I think there's a lot of people out there who have sort of started to carve out this kind of intellectual Trumpism space where they will go to bat for him.

Typically how they do it or what I see is Trump will say something and they will interpret what he's saying in a particular way that they can formulate a strong argument around.

And because the president is who he is,

It's hard to know what's real policy, what's a real threat.

What happens on Truth Social often translates into the real world and sometimes it doesn't.

So I think there's so much room and it's so complicated and layered.

My perspective is there are a lot of really smart people who I know, who I trust, whose work I read, who I think are independent thinkers in a lot of ways, who are honest brokers.

who still think that the president is a better option over whoever Democrats can produce.

And I'm interested in their perspectives, even when I think Trump.

Yeah, I am.

But people like Andrew McCarthy at National Review, Oren Kass.

I mean, there's loads of writers out there who I think make arguments that are compelling to me or move my position on things, you know, in the narrow sense.

I would say, honestly, in my experience from doing this work,

The argument is rarely sort of centered around this kind of baseline fact.