Ivan Barabanov

I'm making it work.

I'm making it work.

playing music or or painting a painting you know what i mean just to tell picasso to stop stop painting yeah this is a really good example actually because um even though a painter's painting they never paint the same picture and i think with dog training is very much similar sometimes they're the type of trainers that they can be for very long time in the game but

but it's always looking for different interesting things.

And that's, I think, what keeps it going instead of, okay, well, I know how to do it and I stay with what I know instead of trying to push the door and see what happens if I take it this way.

I think that's where it gets interesting eventually.

Right, right.

Yeah, yeah, very true.

Pierre, let me make a quick introduction.

Guys, if you...

are strangers to IGP, IPO, I have as a guest Pierre Wallstrom today.

Pierre has incredible experience from many different angles.

I know him for quite some time.

We have hung out together.

Pierre has judged me a lot of times, actually.

He's a

He's a breeder in German Shepherds.

He's a judge.

He judges FCI, but he's also a foreign SV judge for the German Shepherds.

He breeds German Shepherds.