James Cleverley

I sensed a little bit of tension within him.

I think he's still...

wants the Conservative Party to go in the direction that he set out when he was running for the leadership, which I guess is what I would define as maybe more on the centre than the centre right, and certainly not down the kind of radical populist right.

I like the fact that, you know, he had a good go at you when you were talking about Jenrick.

He had a good go at me over Brexit.

He sort of fights his corner.

I thought he was...

refreshingly frank and honest about some of his colleagues.

And I know I accept why you can't be when you were sort of bound by collective responsibility on the front bench, but I thought his assessments of his colleagues was pretty good.

Yeah, so I hope our listeners, because, you know, we should explain to our listeners, we're always trying to get these politicians more on the right, but they seem either terrified or I don't know what it is, reform of thinking of just taking the decision.

They're not going to entertain us at all.

Yeah.

I'd forgotten, you reminded me that when we were doing our tour, it was around the time the Troy Leadership Collection was going on.

And I think you're right.

Every single audience we did, we asked the audience if you were choosing between...

Jenrick, Badenock, Cleverley, and whoever else was in the frame.

I think it was those three by the time we're doing it.

And he was kind of landslide every time, wasn't he?

Which was interesting.

Okay.