James Cleverley

Because you were at one point, you led in the first round, didn't you?

So they voted, as it were, to give you an easy ride to the final.

No, because he's a very principled, non-opportunist sort of politician.

Well, listen, we'll come back to the past and the future of the Conservative Party.

But let's wind right back to the start of your life.

Tell us just a little bit about your mum and your dad.

And I guess from my perspective, Rory hates it when I ask this question, but what made you a Tory?

But what was the sense around you?

You would have been a pretty rare sight, I'd have thought, even where you were growing up.

How regularly would you and your cousins have...

You and your non-white cousins have encountered what today we would define as racism.

And then I'd- Racism in the military?

But it's interesting because I can hear when you said that, I could imagine some people saying, well, that's the guy with pretty racist tendencies.

On the other hand, it could be somebody who's seeing you in a leadership role.

Okay, well, I think that's proper motivation, seeing you as a leader and telling you to think like that.

No, but James, let me just, I think that's really rewriting history.

Sadiq Khan, I think, is incredibly calm and well-tempered, given that the President of the United States attacks him, lambasts him, virtually every time he comes here.

Yeah.

And not because of what Sadiq Khan does or says, but because of absolute lies that the MAGA crowd tell about London.

And I do think it's racism.