James Cleverley

Is it changing?

Is it changing the US position?

It may or it may not, but the point is, it's changing the Canadian position.

Where I completely agree with you, you have to do your best to make the relationship work at every level.

And I think Keir Starmer has tried really hard to do that, the King's visit and all that stuff.

But the minute he didn't jump when Trump said Iran, then we start to pay a price.

Let me just... Actually, I was getting to a point about Mark Carney.

I think Mark Carney... Well, I know Donald Trump has phoned Mark Carney.

More than Mark Carney has phoned Donald Trump since Davos last year.

I think that last night, we were meeting just after Zelensky came to London.

Last night he met Keir, he met Mertz, he met Macron.

I think that is...

leaders doing what you're suggesting.

Don't just whack the other side.

Do something different.

Show that Europe can matter.

My point, though, you're in opposition now.

My point is that values really, really matter.

And unless people like you are prepared to say that

that what they're doing is more than unprecedented.