Joe Hudson

But she also was doing her own way of... She was doing her own way, which became really important later on.

And so...

Eventually, I'm at a different meditation retreat.

I'm going to the bathroom, which is oddly often in Zen Buddhist parables and Taoist parables of like having an experience.

And I had lots of big experiences at this point.

And I was peeing and I had this experience and it just was like...

I asked, what am I?

And the answer disappeared.

I don't know exactly how to explain it.

But the first thought was, I am that.

And the second thought was, this never ends.

And I got really lucky with that second thought.

Because I know a lot of folks who have had that awakening experience and they think it's an end.

They think it's like, okay, I'm done.

And then they identify as like this awake person, which is its own weird ego trip.

Yeah.

And so that didn't happen to me.

And I think that that didn't happen to me because I struggled so hard to get to that point.

So I was lucky.

So I had that experience, but for a very, very short period of time, maybe less than a year, I kind of identified as somebody who was awake.