Joe Polish
Appearances
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
I want to say something to that, too, just for context purposes. So it was years before Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi was writing about the flow state, but no one quite figured out how to actually get there. And I think that's what your work has been. Yeah, that's most of my work with them. And, you know, what's interesting is like Stephen's books.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
He's written a lot of like Peter Diamandis's books, which New York Times bestsellers was written with Steve. Right. And you probably did more writing it. We share. Peter's a friend of mine. So, but the thing is, is like, so for everyone listening, you're an entrepreneur. I think the 500% productivity is incredible.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
There's also the group flow because almost everyone listening to this has a team of people. So it's not just an individual thing, right? So how do you do this? How do you enroll and engage other people so you can get your company?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
I think that's what Tommy's done a really great job with, you know, unstoppable three 65, you know, it's bringing people into all of these, not just mental, but physical stuff because you, In his latest, Stephen's latest book, it's called NAR Country, G-N-A-R, Getting Old, Staying Rad. You know, because he's pretty much like a punk rocker. And I never, I'm not. And I was born in like the 1840s.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
So I'm old and I'm an old punk rocker. Yeah, we're about the same age. So what's funny is that he's been nominated three times for a Pulitzer Prize. Haven't won yet, so you're like a loser. I'm the biggest loser in the history of the Pulitzer. Yes, I am. No, you're an amazing writer and you do like incredible research and whatnot.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
And so, you know, the point I want to make with all of that is that this isn't just performance. This is how you mentally feel.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Can I ask you a question? Because I've sat through Tommy's team meetings. very engaged, you know, one of the most engaged group that I've seen in service business, which is why I think he's such a great spokesperson for, you know, home service and whatnot.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
That's just me. So I'm sure, you know, I can't speak for Tommy. I'm sure there's stages where he's like really motivated. You know, he's really engaged in the culture. So I look at it in engagement. What's the difference between an engaged culture and flow? What is the similarities?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
You know, it's interesting, like with framing, because the way I'm sitting there thinking about who would be watching or listening to this. And when you had Lyme disease, let's just say for simplicity's sake, I know it's way more involved and complicated than I'm going to try to simplify it, is you're off track. Your body's not working. Nothing was working.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
I mean, I screwed myself, but good. So you're way off track, right? And then surfing. And the mechanism of engaging in flow brings healing to you. It brings all this shit to you, right? And that's when you first started figuring out what the hell is happening here. And you immerse yourself in that. Being the world expert in this area.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
So the question is, Tommy's had areas of his life, you know, as a drug addict, right? Like I was mired in addiction. I've been in recovery for 20 plus years. So when you're off track flow in knowing how to get there and what we're talking about today to get you on track is what's so critically important. I think Tommy, you know, he's going to hold a big event this week.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
bunch of people that are off track some are on track they just want to be going faster we want to do them better and so the whole purpose of this conversation is like how do we help people get on track how do you purposefully get yourself to the best part of that track how do you bring your team along on that track and that that has to do with zero to dangerous like understanding what that even means yeah what goes on in that process well this is again where the neuroscience is so useful we
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Well, let me speak to that then. Because in like NAR country, he literally shows like if you're injured, getting yourself in flow in order to overcome like a back pain that's going to take place because of how much neurochemically is happening in a flow state. When you guys are talking, I write down here, I wrote flow killers because I want to hear your perspective on flow killers.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
in the area of relationships, money, which he spoke to, physical, spiritual, emotional, the environment. If you're in some toxic environment, you may intellectually understand it, and then foundational, sleep, water, basic needs, and then fear. Like he said, a challenging situation.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Well, Tommy is dancing with fear in a different way where it is somehow empowering him, whereas other people, it's disabling them. And then get in the game. You said get in the game. And I'm like, okay, so how do you design that game? And what are the killers that are going to keep that? So that's all the stuff that's going through my head before you get to the three tiers of goal setting, right?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Oh, yeah, yeah. Gosh, we first met around 2010. I've had quite a few interviews with him. Smart dude. He's very science-based and he's very much, he'll call out what he thinks are charlatans and bullshit. And he always looks back and like, how do we know this actually works? And Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, who wrote the original Flow the Psychology of Achievement and many other great books.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Stephen's actually the one that taught me how to actually pronounce it. his last name, Chick, set me high, right? So Mihaly, and he was- Yeah, Tavi, ask me how I learned to pronounce it the hard way. Because I learned the hard way too. And I'll just say this. I found a genius at work and I have Genius Recovery, which is an addiction recovery foundation.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
And I won't go into this unless you guys decide to go down that road. I think of flow. There's that Johan Hari line, which is the opposite of addiction, it's connection. And so if you take the opposite of the ultimate form of connection is flow, is to being in a state where you just, it's blissful, you're connected, you feel good. It could be, you know, psychological, it could be physical.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
It's all those things that coalesce in this great area where you're just blissful. you're just on, you're dialed in. Now, the opposite of that is complete angst and stress and desperation. And you look at addiction.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
You know what I got to speak to that too. So like years ago, I did this video that's on YouTube with Robin Sharma. And he wrote a book called many books, but he wrote the 5am club. And I interviewed him when he was working on the 5am club before it came out. And I also coauthored a book of the miracle morning for addiction. recovery. And I am more predominantly like a nocturnal person.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
I'd rather, but you're all, I can, I know I can call you at six o'clock in the morning. You're one of the few people I know I call at that time. Well, yeah, what's funny. So like I was talking to my buddy, Dean Jackson and who you've had on your podcast. Yeah. And it's like, if you want a 5am club, it's really a 9pm club.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Because if you try to get up at 5 a.m., but you're going to bed at 1 in the morning, you're just going to be exhausted. And so part of it is, so you just described your flow in the morning, doing the hardest thing. What happens before you go to bed? An hour, two hour, whatever. Is there anything that you could... you can share here that would be useful because Tommy does the same thing.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
So I look at flow, not only just in performance and life for entrepreneurs and business owners, like the home service experts that are listening to this, people that want to get in better physical shape. I also look at it in terms of if you're not in a state, can't get to a state of flow and connectedness, you could have a very self-destructive life. You could be lonely, depressed.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Tommy has his rituals, but there's before bed and there's after, but he says the most important thing is sleep. So what's happening before?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
It was funny because I've spent a lot of time with Richard. Yeah, you have. I spent six weeks on his island.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
You can just feel horrible. And so Stephen can speak to all of that. And I'm really just kind of here to, I'll just interrupt.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
And so, like, to me... And that would probably also include social media.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Any sort of screen time.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
So like a Kindle or whatever would not allow that?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Fascinating. Let me ask you a question. Because people have heard this a million times. Don't look at your phone before bed. And instead of acting in any way, shape, or form like I'm somehow above this, both me and Tommy are friends with Dr. Anna Lemke, who wrote Dopamine Nation. And a lot of people misinterpret what dopamine is. It's a neurotransmitter of anticipation.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
And when you're looking at a phone and it's a dopamine cash register, you are anticipating other stuff.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
So it is extraordinarily hard when someone's conditioned to not wake up in the morning, look at their phone, or not look at your phone before you go to bed. What is actually happening when you are looking at a screen versus a book that you're saying no screen time? Because people hear no screen time all the time, but I'd love for you to describe neurochemically What is the draw?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Why is it so hard for people to put it down? What is it training our brains to do? And how is it a flow killer? If you could speak to it in that.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
It'll speak to prediction in the way that you perceive it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
I want to ask you a question about this because I think it bothers me and I think it bothers a lot of other people, but I dance with it a lot. It's criticism, right? So let me give you just a basic example, not being attacked viciously with someone I don't even know. So the other day, so me and Tommy have our books up. Reminds what's in it for them is book Elevate.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
And I was reading a review on Amazon where someone gave me a one-star. And all my writer friends had never made reviews. But I was doing a test to see like, okay, let's see how it bothers me. So nestled between a one-star review where this person was like, Joe used to put out such great stuff and he's lost it. Like someone that I have no idea who this person is. You lost a fan.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
You lost a fan. No, he's like, it's not as good as his earlier work. And it's like, I've put more work into this book than anything. But right above and below that, in terms of the timeline, if you sort by recency, this is the best book I have ever read. I bought three copies for a friend. I've listened to it on audio twice, and I'm reading it now. And it's just like the perception of it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
But the funny thing is, is the vast majorities of the reviews are five stars. And I'm like, so what is it about criticism? What is happening where someone has, because you said the brain fixates on stuff. So gratitude, I think snapshot of it, but I'm curious.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Some people are derailed by criticism. Other people use it as fuel. So the reason I bring it up is like Tommy's comment about fear. It's like some people will see some type of rejection. It's like, I'm not good enough. They go into a shame cycle. They can't function. Others are like, man, they use that as fuel. Let me ask.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Well, let me say something to this, because I mean, it could be semantics. It could be, you know, I would look at it as we're always if we are growing and succeeding or bigger opportunities come along the way that you have to triage stuff, whatever you renegotiate.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
I'm curious to hear your take on the terminology of breaking your word because you don't want your brain to be like, I don't keep my word.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
You're trying to free yourself up if you've overcommitted the shit out of yourself. And I think we're notorious for our eyes for opportunity are bigger than our ability to live.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Better to be prolific than it is to be perfect. I mean, there's many different
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? Yeah. No, I mean, I think this is a really important point, especially because I know we're coming to an end here shortly. So for people listening, we are. Are you just we're going to be here all day.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
No, I know he needs to go. I know he's got to go to San Diego. I love this. I'm politely looking out for Tommy at the moment. But now that we brought it up publicly, we'll just keep going with it. Now, so getting started, there's always, you know, the man in the arena, Theodore Roosevelt.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
If you've never read Man in the Arena, just type in Man in the Arena online, read the thing by Theodore Roosevelt. I mean, that's what makes the difference. I mean, we're, and when it comes to ethic, let's talk about the book because I am, the term enthusiasm covers many deficiencies is something that my friend Dave Kekich said. So being in a flow state, you're going to be happier.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
You're going to be more enthusiastic. You're going to be more connected. When it comes to say no, you can say no without being an asshole. You can use some evaluation of like, you know, what's the short term and long term. You definitely want to protect yourself. You want to keep the word to yourself. All that is critically important.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
And marketing, like for instance, with your book, hype used ethically, if you want to use the word hype, which normally has a negative connotation, hype used ethically is massive enthusiasm for what you're selling. Hype used unethically is lying, bullshitting, misleading, exaggerating things that simply aren't true.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
And I literally revolt against bad marketers that are misleading people because I think cruel optimism, I can't remember the woman's name who coined that term, cruel optimism where you're promising to bring the people in false hope. False hope is terrible. It hurts people. Right.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
And so with abundance, my job with helping to put that book on New York times with Peter, your book was to basically look at all of the parts of it and influence people in the things that were significant. Like think of people because Tommy is,
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
not only spends a tremendous amount on marketing, but he's trying to not only help build a better home service professional and help his clients, but he's also wanting to show them how to package themselves to get people to be attracted to you, to do business with you, not just clients for home service, but hiring technicians and building the right culture.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
So like for 20 years, I got all this resistance when I would talk about selling and marketing because people have all had bad negative experiences with marketing. You know, people love to be sold. They hate to be pressured or people that are lying to them. So I say it today, like think of selling is influence. Think of marketing as storytelling.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
If you're more influential, you're going to do a better job with anything. Doesn't need to be even money involved. It could be with your kids. It could be with yourself. And think of marketing as storytelling. You know, tell a story that enrolls people, not something that bores the shit out of them. And I think we wake up every day and do a sales job to ourselves.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
If you're going to do the hardest thing in the morning, you have to do a bit of a sales job. You have to influence yourself. And you've learned why that is so important.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
He's basing this on some type of research. I don't know what you want it to be. Because I've heard the ideal time is like 18 minutes. But at what temperature?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Yeah, it was, I think it was done in Sweden. Sweden or Switzerland or where the hell?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
So what were we talking about? Right. Prior to like, no, no, like 10 favorite feelings. You said laughing with your best friend. And now that's, that's something to do. And that's not per se. Well, are you saying write down the things you like, the feelings of joy or like, whatever.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Yeah, and everything you say yes to, like we talked earlier, everything you say yes to, you say no to something else. Exactly. If you say yes to this interview right now, we're saying no to everything else we could do during that time. And Tommy has to make that decision every day. You have to do it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
And so I think, you know, the analogy I use with the million-dollar racehorse, which is if you had a million-dollar racehorse, and every time that horse ran a race and won, you'd make a million dollars. Then the question is, well, how would you get there? You would have the best trainers. You would have the best – Nutrition plan. You have the rest, rejuvenation, relaxation.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
You wouldn't have the horse up till 3 a.m. watching porn, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol. You would not have the horse hanging out with loser horses. You'd have the horse in the right races, the race selection. of where you put your time, attention, money, effort, and energy is critical. So the key is the million-dollar racehorse in a flow state is a badass.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
The million-dollar racehorse not in a flow state is a life of pain, angst, and just not winning, right? So I think this whole conversation accumulates with how do you win? And I say this as a joke to young people, and it's kind of funny, and I almost do it to remind myself. It's like if I would have known being successful was this much work, I would have stuck with being a loser.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Yeah. And at the same time, I say that funnily, but I'm actually kind of like, you're glad you wrote the 14 books. You're glad. So it's like Somerset Maude, I think, said, I don't like writing. I like having written.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Right. And by the way, I might have misquoted something because I think that it may or may not be Somerset Maude that said it. Because I know my buddy Steven Pressfield says it's that Somerset Maude also, I think, said it's not the writing that's hard. It's sitting down to write that's hard.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
And like, let's say, you know, Branson swooped in a week before the XPRIZE flight, the first one flew, and he licensed the technology. So he didn't even create it. Yeah. Right. He just licensed it. Right. And it was created through this grandiose dream to see if you can pull something off. And the world advances on the backs of its neurotics is something my buddy Gary Halbert would say.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
That's why I bought the domain name spaceuniversity.com like 12 years ago because I knew it was going to be a big thing one day. Still haven't done much with it yet. So let me say this last thing because I know we need to wrap about space. When I went to the Mojave Airport, which I've been to twice, which is like the Silicon Valley of space travel, Stu, who's no longer the – he used to run it.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
He used to be the CEO or whatever his title was there, but he ran it. He said, we give people permission to come here and die. And he was telling that to a whole room of us on the 10th year anniversary of X Prize when they won. And he said, what I mean is that people are going into something. If you're going to explore this, they're going to die.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
And if they don't have permission to come to a place where they can do that, the world is never going to advance in this particular area. So all that being said, how would we take everything related to flow? Because there are people that are watching this. Tommy recruits them. He's helping them in all kinds of different ways. Like, what are the things that this could be a very dangerous area.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
But I think if you live a life without knowing anything about flow, there's a lot of joy you're missing out on. And so I think what we've discussed here is such an important area of not only human performance and betterment, but just connectivity and feeling freaking amazing in your life. And what did you not mention that you mentioned just to wrap this up?
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Yeah, I'm just tagging along. I'm giving him a ride because he stayed in my place.
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Achieving 500% Productivity Through Flow States
Appreciate you. Yeah. Fantastic. Awesome. Wish everyone the very best and go get yourself in flow. Get yourself in flow. Thanks guys. Thank you.