Joseph Robertson

And I would also say, really, you know, looking at the GOP,

Those positions that maybe were, you know, on the fringes of the MAGA movement are not popular.

Many of those people have come into the fold over the years as the movement develops.

I think that's something you've got to learn and understand as you mature as a political movement.

And so Reform's trying to do the same.

It's a huge blow to Kemi because behind the scenes, I mean, he used to work with a lot of Tory donors.

He has, like I said, an immense business acumen.

So I think both of these defections are going to hit her very hard.

And I would say both of them are net positives for reform, whatever people may think of the individuals.

So I think that while the situation is dire, they do have one or two cards left on the table.

So there are people like Katie Lamb coming through.

I am, you know, the jury's out on whether or not she is as good as she says she is.

Obviously, she has, you know, some associations with people in the Tory party that I consider to be on the left, despite what she

she says, being more to the right of the party.

But they do have some younger MPs.

I think what will happen is if we see, let's say, a Katie Lamb or, you know, indeed, a Suela Braverman, etc., defecting to reform in the next few days or weeks, then that will truly be the end, because that will be all of your options off the table for anybody with any talent in the party to

come through.

And that will basically be the litmus test.

As long as they sort of have this switcheroo going on between James Cleverley and Kemi Badenoch, both establishment candidates, both essentially run by the same vested interests that control the rest of the Tory party, there is not much hope, quite frankly.

And there's one thing I've got to say, which is that there's no youth movement in the Tory party.