Lee Jussim

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183 appearances 1 recordings 1 series first heard Dec 2024 last heard Dec 2024

Lee Jussim’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.

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The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast · 507. The Insanity of Woke Psychologists | Lee Jussim · 16 Dec 2024 podcast

Yes. Yes.

This is great. Sonia's a fan of your podcast. I'm sure she's going to see this. I'll probably talk to her before, but hi, Sonia.

That's great.

Yeah. Right, so... I think that's right.

Yeah, okay. We'll have to try it. We'll have to try it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Try it out. Absolutely.

And it was exactly as you described before we went down the large language model path that liberals who are not... So we use statistical regression. We can separate out... from being liberal but not authoritarian, from being a left-wing authoritarian but not liberal. Liberalism predicted endorsement of the sort of humanistic diversity image. The people together are under an American flag.

We're all different, but we're all in it together. We love America, blah, blah, blah. It was left-wing authoritarianism powerfully predicted endorsement of the Soviet propaganda. The Statue of Liberty is KKK.

Yes, yes. Oh, that's good.

So that's one. We did this kind of thing.

Well, it's a lot. It's a lot. We include it in almost everything. And we include measures of left- and right-wing authoritarianism in most of the studies we've been conducting. Right, right. So tell us more. So the...

The most recent splash, and I think that's what got your staff member interested in having me on here, were three experimental studies assessing the psychological impacts of common DEI rhetoric and pedagogy. Right, right. And we did it with three different kinds of DEI rhetoric.

I remember that now. Yeah, that's fairly recent. And they've made more of a splash than I would have expected.

So let me walk through Let me qualify this a little bit. We examined the rhetoric that is common to many DEI interventions. ChatGPT can do a very good job of that, by the way. Kind of. The problem is a lot of the materials... used in DEI trainings aren't publicly available. So it's actually hard. And we can say they're common to things we had access to, but a lot is not publicly available.

And that's an important limitation that your listeners, viewers should understand. It's not like we evaluated the effectiveness of the DEI training program instituted by the HR department of the city of Milwaukee. We didn't do that. We took the intellectual ideas from three different kinds of sources.

Anti-racism rhetoric, anti-Islamophobia rhetoric, and anti-caste, the Hindu caste system, anti-caste oppression rhetoric. And there are For race, we used passages from Kendi's How to Be an Antiracist and from D'Angelo's White Fragility. These books were widely required for our colleges. You know, sometimes she's paid $40,000 a session to come in and give her training. So...

And we also actually used this sort of large language model, this sort of language network analysis to examine the extent to which this type of rhetoric was common throughout the training materials we had access to, and it was very common.

You know what, I have this here. So let me give an example from the race... And this is just a short excerpt. So people would read, so they would read, say, an anti-racist passage or a control passage. The control passage in these studies, in two out of the three, was about how to grow corn on the farm. It was completely separate. And this is only a short excerpt of a longer passage. Yeah, okay.

This is the anti-racism. White people raised in Western society are conditioned into a white supremacist worldview. Racism is the norm. It is not unusual. It just went on for a full paragraph. And it was quotes smoothed together with a little writing by us of Kendi and D'Angelo.

All right. So they then were presented with a very brief scenario in which a college admissions officer interviews an applicant and ultimately the applicant is rejected from admission. That's the whole scenario. The words are slightly different because I'm doing that piece from memory, but that's basically the whole scenario. They were then asked a series of questions

assessing how much perceived racism and bias was... Was the causal factor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On the part of the admissions officer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And what we found is when they got the Kendi D'Angelo essay, they claimed to have seen or observed the admissions officer committing more microaggressions treating the applicant more unfairly, and that the admissions officer was more biased.

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